251–260 of 352 posts
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Is it? Can it compete with c# or swift for desktop applications?
Yes. In the sense that neither C# nor, especially, Swift are suitable as teaching languages. (Nor is Python, BTW.)
Then why is it being used as a teaching language in many US schools?
https://www.apple.com/education/docs/everyone-can-code-curri...
A bit more relevant and marketable than Delphi. And with Swift playgrounds, students can even practice using an iPad.
I really don't want to sound cynical about this great initiative(!) but it saddens me that among many open modern languages and tools, they instead opted for Delphi. I cannot think of a single positive reason behind this decision in 2020. All I can think of is that the people that came to this conclusion are the ones who graduated from Computer Science related studies in ~1998-2004~ and immediately got themselves in…
All modern tools are really complicated compared to Delphi. I remember Delphi was so intuitive to design GUI and program its events so i could start making my own programs right after professor showed me how to make a button and handle onClick event.
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The number of small scale desktop applications (like restaurant accounting/billing or tax management) in Turkey or similar markets exceeds all forms of mobile/web apps combined. In my home town in Iran, C# desktop developer is the number one job offer for the last 10-15 years. The market is full of small businesses that need simple desktop apps to run the business.
Why would you want to build a restaurant accounting/billing app as a desktop app instead of a browser app?
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I'm not even talking about big O or algorithms & data structures. I'm talking about the basic concepts of function, iteration, abstraction, indirection etc.
Yeah those are definitely things that new programmers need to learn, but they usually need to learn them by doing things the hard way a few times first. "yeah, that's a lot of copy and pasting isn't it? Want a neat trick to save yourself some effort?"
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Delphi is still very relevant when building desktop applications.
Not only that but Delphi has tremendous educational potential due to fast feedback loops. There was a blog post once on HN where one of Delphi authors discussed how they designed IDE and the language to be friendly for newcomers. One could ask why not invest in https://www.lazarus-ide.org/ instead of commercial Delphi though?
Agreed completely!
Not only that, but an argument could be made that the TIME that a given body of source code takes to compile -- can have a huge impact (positive or negative) on programmer productivity...
Case in point: The Linux Kernel (written in C)...
You make a change, even a small one, and you're probably going to wait for HOURS for it to compile...
HOURS...
Before you can run it, to know what your change accomplished (or didn't accomplish!)...
HOURS...
If the Linux Kernel was written in Delphi, compilation would take no more than a few MINUTES, even on a modest machine, and possibly a lot less, possibly seconds, depending on the dependencies of the code that was modified...
That's the technological beauty of a single-pass compiler that caches precompiled source and its associated symbol tables (and only recompiles what's needed, only when it's needed)...
Which change-compile-test-feedback loop do you think would make a programmer more productive?
?
Hint: Even a non-programmer could easily know the difference...
Yes, there are languages which are more popular, more attuned to web development, more Lambda-esque in nature, and these things are virtuous, to be sure -- but in terms of raw compilation/run/test/change/iterate speed (aka productivity), Delphi smokes all of them...
For a programming job in the U.S., with many employers using differing technologies, it may be a loss, but for education, for the ability to learn how to think (as a programmer) and subsequently grow into other tools/technologies, it's a big WIN.
This reminds me of a few ( I then found out that they were being taught to use Borland Turbo C . I suspect the case for this is similar: Some person who once upon a time learnt to program and then never practiced nor developed their skills somehow got a job teaching programming, and is now trying to apply the ancient tools they were taught somewhere around the time when some fish decided to walk on land because its a…
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The number of small scale desktop applications (like restaurant accounting/billing or tax management) in Turkey or similar markets exceeds all forms of mobile/web apps combined. In my home town in Iran, C# desktop developer is the number one job offer for the last 10-15 years. The market is full of small businesses that need simple desktop apps to run the business.
Why would you want to build a restaurant accounting/billing app as a desktop app instead of a browser app?
- Because you still need to bill your customers even when the net is down or slow,
- It works faster and more reliable on old, low on memory PC that you probably have. Also can work with old printers, barcode readers and pretty much anything out there,
- Power of habit (a big deal),
- Don't want to keep your accounting details on a remote server. This is probably of less importance for restaurants, but very important point for various trading companies, as it's not uncommon for someone to bribe accounting firms to leak info on competition.
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Borland C and Pascal were great for learning programming in mid-90s, because of one crucial feature: an immensely good built in help reference. Whenever you wanted to know syntax of some command, you print this command, press ctrl-f1 and is presented with docs, complete with a working example . It was insanely great. Remember, stack overflow didn't exist then.
Stack Overflow has dumbed people down significantly because of the mental laziness it engenders. In a time before the internet, it used to be that books, and occasionally magazines, were the initial entry points to understanding software, hardware and electronics. Then the BBS came along, these secret islands of knowledge and trade. I learned Pascal and assembly on Turbo Pascal with trial-and-error and lots of contex…
My frustrations as HN comments:
* Selective bias in candidate selection - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22098101
* Low productivity environments - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21965539
* False equivalence - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21904199
* There are only 2 APIs for working in the browser and yet most developers can't figure it out to save their careers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21849398
* Invented Here stupidity - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21417450
* The DOM is a 20 year old standard that is the primary interface to any markup language and the primary interface when working in the browser, yet it is still somehow an arcane mystery of lost knowledge - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21069571
* More about hiring bias - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21015495
* Excessive sensitivity not found in other industries. I have heard that several psychologists are predicting my children's generation will be the most offensive generation as a counter to the extreme sensitivity (fragility) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20668380
* More selective bias, online code tests. Now when I see online code tests without extremely specific grading criteria I instantly terminate the conversation. - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20605329
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I would argue that StackOverflow itself is not a problem—it is instead the laziness of many in the "newer" generations of programmers. StackOverflow has many great explanations, which are no different than reading a chapter in a book (it's just a book that is extremely relevant to you problem). The problem is that lazy people demand code dumps, and lazy people provide code dumps instead of explanations. This then bec…
I believe if nothing else then it's the fact that there are more programmers meaning less hardcore people who just want to get shit done and move on
Perfectionism is not required, and can get in the way of professionalism. This is about a minimum amount of responsibility.
(Learning is different though.)