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Pharo 8.0

pharo.org

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Re: Pharo 8.0

#81

Post by seandenigris »

hliyan wrote: post #64

Five clicks through from the home page and I still can't seem to find a "Getting started" / "Hello World" example.

One click on the "Documentation" tab provides links to several screencasts/tutorials. Are you looking for something specific? "Hello world" doesn't cleanly map to an environment as comprehensive as Pharo because there are so many options. Do you want "hello world" to output to the terminal (Stdio stdout << 'Hello world')? A window? A growl-style popup (UIManager default inform: 'Hello world')? The transcript (Transcript show: 'Hello world')?

Re: Pharo 8.0

#82

Post by badsectoracula »

zamadatix wrote: post #73
badsectoracula wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a table of desktop resolutions, while it is possible that someone might have connected a 2" 640x480 screen to their desktop, it is very safe to assume that only resolutions above 2560x1440 are HiDPI and anything else is just noise.

"Desktop" includes laptop at statcounter. 1080p is supposed to be 23". And again if it's simply the resolution the browser reports it is post scale so a 2560x1440 laptop at 150% would show as 1920x1080 anyways. It's web stats, they only care about the size of the viewport.

Yes, i'm also talking about laptops here, not just desktops.

If you can go by with 150% this isn't HiDPI (and on most laptops 150% for 1080p is too big anyway, at least on Windows, you want something around 125%). HiDPI is something that you need at least 200%, like Apple's 2560x1600 at 13" where anything less is unusable. Using 100% scaling on a laptop at 1080p is perfectly fine (this is my laptop configuration and how i use it).

Remember that "HiDPI" was the generic term that was used in place of Apple's trademarked "Retina" and what is i am talking about.

The entire discussion is about why HiDPI isn't supported and the answer is simply that few people need it (as shown by the stats i linked above and below) and fewer are in a position to implement it.

Re: Pharo 8.0

#83

Post by shobith »

echelon wrote: post #68
shobith wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it an on-site interview? I’m curious how he was able to convince you to install the env.

Yeah, onsite. Remotes are harder in this respect. We give onsite candidates affordances to install any environment that makes them feel comfortable, or to allow them to bring their own machines. The interview machines get wiped on a regular cadence, so installing packages is no big deal. If candidates send us a list of the software they want beforehand, we usually try to set it up for them in advance. If not, it's fi…

Where do you work?? :D

Re: Pharo 8.0

#84

Post by nundah »

rbanffy wrote: post #76
nundah wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dolphin Smalltalk. Such an underrated tool. Productivity + Windows-native gui. Nothing else like it. The Pharo Spec/2 pales in comparison.

IF you are developing a Windows-only application.

Yup, and that is the reason I refused to look at it for so long. And then I went to work for a large corporate where Windows is mandated since forever and will be until eternity. And from my impression most businesses wont touch any other OS for use on desktops.

You can of course use Wine/Wineskin and there are guides on how to get this done for Dolphin apps, but I just wont bother for my clients. Not one has ever mentioned compatibility with anything other than Windows 10.

Re: Pharo 8.0

#85

Post by ralphc »

16" MacBook Pro, Catalina, I get "“PharoLauncher.app” can’t be opened because Apple cannot check it for malicious software." "This software needs to be updated."

Re: Pharo 8.0

#86

Post by alxndr »

seandenigris wrote: post #79
blihp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using various Smalltalk dialects (Squeak/Cuis/Pharo) for over a decade. I've gone a bit off the deep end and use it for prototyping pretty much everywhere I can. Pharo would be the one Smalltalk environment I would not use for non-toy stuff because it has historically been so unstable. This is at least somewhat by design since the developers have always stated they didn't want to be constrained by backwards…

Due to Pharo/Smalltalk being not just a language, but a language/libraries/IDE, I think it's important to distinguish between API instability (which IHMO is better called evolution) vs. bugginess. API evolution is a core part of Pharo's mission. I've personally upgraded projects from Pharo 1.x all the way to Pharo 7 and have been very willing to trade a small amount of effort porting for big increases in productivity…

> I've personally upgraded projects from Pharo 1.x all the way to Pharo 7 and have been very willing to trade a small amount of effort porting for big increases in productivity.

Wow, any chance you've written about the upgrade process?

Re: Pharo 8.0

#87

Post by rbanffy »

nundah wrote: post #84
rbanffy wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IF you are developing a Windows-only application.

Yup, and that is the reason I refused to look at it for so long. And then I went to work for a large corporate where Windows is mandated since forever and will be until eternity. And from my impression most businesses wont touch any other OS for use on desktops. You can of course use Wine/Wineskin and there are guides on how to get this done for Dolphin apps, but I just wont bother for my clients. Not one has ever me…

> And from my impression most businesses wont touch any other OS for use on desktops.

True, but more and more software is delivered using web-based technologies - from desktop apps like Slack to most SaaS offerings.

Re: Pharo 8.0

#88

Post by ralphc »

ralphc wrote: post #85

16" MacBook Pro, Catalina, I get "“PharoLauncher.app” can’t be opened because Apple cannot check it for malicious software." "This software needs to be updated."

For others coming along later, right click, pick "open". If you don't get an "open" button on the dialog, go to system preferences, security, general. You should see a button that says "Pharo Launcher wouldn't open. Open anyway" or something of that nature. Click. Profit!

Re: Pharo 8.0

#89

Post by masukomi »

rbanffy wrote: post #75
klez wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, if you wanted to make a cross-platform desktop application that doesn't look native (which, given the prevalence of Electron, doesn't seem to matter too much to people), this would be an excellent choice. Yeah, as if people are going to install a whole virtual machine to run a chat application... Wait...

> Yeah, as if people are going to install a whole virtual machine to run a chat application... You can install an application that launches the VM with the desired image and the user will never know the app is running inside a Smalltalk VM.

i think they were being sarcastic, because slack is JavaScript in a VM (Electron) to run a chat application.

Re: Pharo 8.0

#90

Post by masukomi »

ethagnawl wrote: post #62
armagon wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That'd be funny. I'm sure you could do it with https://www.amber-lang.net/ ;-)

I have a short anecdote about Amber, which may or may not be widely known. Amber.js was the original name of Ember.js (so named after the style of beer one of its creators was drinking when they were searching for a name; if memory serves it was also the result of pulling bits and pieces out of SproutCore.js). When it came time to release the project, the authors of A/Ember were notified that they were encroaching on…

what bewildered me at the time was that they never did a google search for it before publicizing their chosen name. Or that maybe they did and said "screw it. who cares about smalltalk. we'll steal their name"
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