Draft of German copyright reform proposes memes should only be up to 128 pixels • Hacker News Board

Re: Draft of German copyright reform proposes memes should only be up to 128 pixels

#121

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 22, 2020, 1:51 AM UTC

JadeNB wrote: post #71

no_identd wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i.e. JPEG macroblocks? Sounds like a challenge for a metamemetic image meme-image–macro meme image codec(MIM-I–MIMIC) format to lampshade the absurdity of all of this. (No, I ain't gonna write it. But I did just give all y'all an acronym for it, and I ain't gonna ask any of you to write it, either. However, I do dare challenge you to come up with some recursive derivation of the acronym, tho!)

> some recursive derivation of the acronym MIMIC: MIMIC Is Memes In Chunks.

[deleted]

Re: Draft of German copyright reform proposes memes should only be up to 128 pixels

#122

Post by Mirioron » Wed, Jan 22, 2020, 3:09 PM UTC

dahart wrote: post #112

Mirioron wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason people are outraged is because in practice memes were permitted. These new rules create more enforcement, which means that in practice people will likely have less freedom.

No, memes have not been “permitted”. Something is not legal just because you don’t get caught or sued. Memes that try to use frames from movies have been handed takedown notices. Other memes just haven’t been handed takedowns because the owner isn’t making enough money to make a legal defense worthwhile. It’s not ethical to claim it’s permitted just because someone can’t defend it.

>No, memes have not been “permitted”. Something is not legal just because you don’t get caught or sued.

All that matters is whether this happens much in the real world or not. The world's most draconian laws mean absolutely nothing if they're not enforced.

>Memes that try to use frames from movies have been handed takedown notices.

And the banana you ate contained radioactive isotopes, but you didn't hold off from eating it because of that. Something that's a rare occurrence doesn't change how people behave.

>It’s not ethical to claim it’s permitted just because someone can’t defend it.

I believe that our current copyright system itself is unethical. There is absolutely no point at which "copyright needs to extend 70 years beyond the author's death" and "copyright laws exist to further the advancement of science and culture" intersect. I'd even argue that these copyright laws are what hinder the advancement of science and culture. Memes don't mean much if they don't get shared and if sharing them is something people will get in trouble over then they just won't share memes.

Also, I'd like to point out that this copyright system has also created a variety of companies and people who abuse the system for monetary gain, yet there's essentially no recourse to be had.

Re: Draft of German copyright reform proposes memes should only be up to 128 pixels

#123

Post by Mirioron » Wed, Jan 22, 2020, 3:14 PM UTC

dahart wrote: post #115

Mirioron wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Under Berne the key test would be if it was prejudicial to the copyright owner's economic rights, and it would be hard to argue the image had no economic value if it was being used in a popular meme. Isn't that backwards though? Doesn't the Berne Convention say that exemptions to reproduction of copyrighted works can't be prejudiced against the economic interests of the original author? Memes don't really infringe…

> Memes don't really infringe on the original works. Seeing an image of Peter Parker with some text on it doesn't really compete with the Spiderman movie, does it? That is faulty, incorrect logic, and the law (both US copyright and the Berne convention) does not agree with you. You don't have the right to decide what is in the interests of the Marvel franchise, Marvel does. Images of Peter Parker are being actively u…

>You don't have the right to decide what is in the interests of the Marvel franchise, Marvel does.

That doesn't sound right though. Wouldn't this mean that any time a large corporation used somebody's copyrighted works that they're stepping on a huge minefield, because it's now up to the individual to decide what is in their interests?

I'm pretty sure that even US copyright law weights whether the potential copyright infringement creates an alternative product for the market.

>and they can easily show that infringing use of their copyrighted image is diluting their brand and/or causing some financial harm.

That's trademark law not copyright. It's a different matter, because trademarks have to be actively defended.

>I'm more worried about the many smaller independent businesses, and individual creators, that lose control of their work and have no practical legal recourse.

Then you're worried about the wrong thing. They will never have practical legal recourse as long as the legal system is based on spending a lot of money. We can't even get criminal law to work with this. What's the chance that we would get civil law to work with it?

Re: Draft of German copyright reform proposes memes should only be up to 128 pixels

#124

Post by Mindwipe » Wed, Jan 22, 2020, 6:50 PM UTC

Mirioron wrote: post #105

Mindwipe wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say that's highly questionnable under Berne, and are fairly untested under US Fair Use protections. As most of them are stills, and use the entire still, there's no defence of a partial use of the work. Under Berne the key test would be if it was prejudicial to the copyright owner's economic rights, and it would be hard to argue the image had no economic value if it was being used in a popular meme. I do thin…

> Under Berne the key test would be if it was prejudicial to the copyright owner's economic rights, and it would be hard to argue the image had no economic value if it was being used in a popular meme. Isn't that backwards though? Doesn't the Berne Convention say that exemptions to reproduction of copyrighted works can't be prejudiced against the economic interests of the original author? Memes don't really infringe…

> Memes don't really infringe on the original works. Seeing an image of Peter Parker with some text on it doesn't really compete with the Spiderman movie, does it?

Most memes are full reproductions of photographs, not smaller sections of larger works like a still from a film. And I suspect Getty would argue pretty successfully that the online use would indeed compete with their licensing of the image on a website for their photographs for example.