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Tin Found in Israel from 3k Years Ago Comes from Cornwall

archaeology-world.com

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Re: Tin Found in Israel from 3k Years Ago Comes from Cornwall

#21

Post by Retric »

mhh__ wrote: post #18
brian-armstrong wrote: post #7

You hear people today saying we live in a "global economy." It seems like that statement might be true of people hundreds or even thousands of years ago.

True but what magnitude? On the one hand, I'm always surprised by (say) how many thousands of gallons of beer could be produced by a victorian brewery but equally, we make a hell of a lot more now.

A large chunk of that is simply differences in population sizes. The current US population is likely larger than the global population in 1,000 CE. Further, children used to make up a larger chunk of the population exaggerating the differences.

So, it was often possible to scale up production even more, but there where not enough customers to justify it.

Re: Tin Found in Israel from 3k Years Ago Comes from Cornwall

#22

Post by tssva »

During the run of the British archeology TV show "Time Team" they examined a couple of sites in Cornwall associated with tin. In each episode they discuss the far reaching international trade for tin from Cornwall during the bronze age including as far as to locations in Africa, so while adding to archaeological knowledge this find doesn't seem to be breaking new ground.

Re: Tin Found in Israel from 3k Years Ago Comes from Cornwall

#23

Post by keiferski »

tremon wrote: post #20
keiferski wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Amber Road is also a possibility: From at least the 16th century BC, amber was moved from Northern Europe to the Mediterranean area.[2][3] The breast ornament of the Egyptian pharaoh Tutankhamen (c. 1333–1324 BC) contains large Baltic amber beads. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_Road

Using the amber road would be quite a detour here, I imagine. That would mean that instead of crossing the channel and traveling through France and Italy, or circumnavigating the Iberian peninsula, you think it's more likely the tin traveled from Britain, across Scandinavia, then to the Baltics, and from there southwards across Eastern Europe? Not that I have any knowledge of ancient trade routes, but to me having a…

Yeah, I don't know much about the actual trade routes, I was more pointing out that 'stuff from northern Europe' made it to Israel / the Levant.

In any case, I don't think it's much more of a detour though, especially if we assume that it wasn't a specific journey, but a chain of multiple cultures interacting with each other. It doesn't seem implausible to me that tin went from Britain to Scandinavia then down the Amber Road, but I'm not a historian.

Re: Tin Found in Israel from 3k Years Ago Comes from Cornwall

#24

Post by wtracz »

DrScientist wrote: post #14

Rather bizarre the article implies direct ships from Cornwall to the middle east. Surely much more likely a trading network, where things change hands multiple times before reaching destination, probably with key trading hubs. In fact the tin was found off the coast - just as likely to have been on route to somewhere else.

There has always been speculation that there was a Phoenician connection to Cornwall, but not a lot of archeological evidence.

This stemmed from things like Cornish place names having an unusual number of z's (a Phoenician letter) in them, and other similarities.

Re: Tin Found in Israel from 3k Years Ago Comes from Cornwall

#25

Post by netcan »

chrisco255 wrote: post #10
netcan wrote: post #5

It'll be interesting to find what follows. 3k ybp is a relatively unique timestamp for tin. This is during or shortly after the bronze age collapse, where many mediterranean civilisations (greece, egypt, assyria, hatti..) receded, and bronze (inc tin) trade receded with them. Bronze presumably became scarce, and ironworking developed as the eventual alternative. The centuries of the last bronze dark age is the mythic…

Climate change, too. The Minoan Warm Period ended around this time, and temps would not return to their optimum until the Roman Warm Period almost 1000 years later. Had to have an effect on agriculture and trade.

There's evidence for climate changes, earthquakes, revolutions, invasions, war, economic crisis, political crisis, ethnogenesis (both historiographical like accounts of sea peoples & mythical like exodus)... all seemingly substantial and concurrent.

..that's kinda why it's such an interesting and mysterious period. There's tons of room for theories on causes, effects and incidentals.

Re: Tin Found in Israel from 3k Years Ago Comes from Cornwall

#26

Post by jmorse2 »

1wd wrote: post #4

From a 2016 talk: "Possible some came from Cornwall though I rather doubt they went up there more than once in a blue moon. There are some tin mines in southern Turkey but not enough. The vast majority came from Afghanistan. Specifically the Badakhshan region of Afghanistan." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRcu-ysocX4&feature=youtu.be...

On the other hand, Herodotus describes islands off the north/west of Europe "from which we are said to have our tin" [0].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassiterides

Re: Tin Found in Israel from 3k Years Ago Comes from Cornwall

#27

Post by thaumasiotes »

hootbootscoot wrote: post #3
hootbootscoot wrote: post #2

Bronze-age collapse, the Sea Peoples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples and Phoenician trade routes... Trade is a given. Celtic (mode) jewelry found in near-eastern sites, riverine trade routes littered with evidence from around 5-6k BCE indicating vast ancient world trade networks. While first discovered writing on clay tablets in Mesopotamia are first SURVIVING samples of writing, this doesn't preclude cellu…

Humans have likely been trading, boating, and migrating since we stood upright on some African savannah so many hundreds of thousands of years ago.

Boating probably came a little later than that.

Re: Tin Found in Israel from 3k Years Ago Comes from Cornwall

#28

Post by austincheney »

1wd wrote: post #4

From a 2016 talk: "Possible some came from Cornwall though I rather doubt they went up there more than once in a blue moon. There are some tin mines in southern Turkey but not enough. The vast majority came from Afghanistan. Specifically the Badakhshan region of Afghanistan." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRcu-ysocX4&feature=youtu.be...

When I was in Afghanistan the mines in Badakshan were known for the high quality lapiz lazuli and pale colored jade that were traded in shops through out the country. There is an estimated $5 trillion in mineral deposits in the region, which is the second most valuable source of largely untapped natural resources on land.

Re: Tin Found in Israel from 3k Years Ago Comes from Cornwall

#29

Post by jmorse2 »

DrScientist wrote: post #14

Rather bizarre the article implies direct ships from Cornwall to the middle east. Surely much more likely a trading network, where things change hands multiple times before reaching destination, probably with key trading hubs. In fact the tin was found off the coast - just as likely to have been on route to somewhere else.

Biblical sources describe tin as being sourced from Tarshish [0], a remote island that traded with the Phoenician naval merchants in Tyre. Plus as wtracz' sibling comment indicates there's a potential Phoenician connection with Cornwall, it isn't especially unlikely.

[0] https://www.blueletterbible.org/esv/eze/27/12/s_829012

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