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Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

reuters.com

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Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#581

Post by azinman2 »

fc_barnes wrote: post #449
azinman2 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything that happens internally has to be approved by privacy, it’s always part of every discussion (meaning it’s like you’d hope for). There’s no shortage of projects killed or altered because privacy said no. It’s not just marketing.

But the marketing is nonetheless deceptive. Apple’s practices are much less stringent, and their cooperation with law enforcement much greater, than their marketing and even their privacy pages suggest. This is a crappy place to turn around and tell your customers, “should’ve read the fine print!”

If your threat model includes pointed requested from law enforcement, then you probably shouldn’t be using any consumer internet products wholesale.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#582

Post by tomc1985 »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #443
tomc1985 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but what are the reasonable alternatives? Android, with its freewheeling stance on privacy and app permissions? Do they even let you disable location tracking any more?

> Do they even let you disable location tracking any more? You're confusing iOS with Android. On iOS, every time you get your location, that location is also sent to Apple, and there is no way to disable this. Android's collection of this data is gated by a checkbox that is shown to every user on device setup.

Last time I used android there as no option for disabling location tracking as they had removed it a few major versions prior. Instead you had "enabled" and "kind of disabled, but not really" options

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#583

Post by JoBrad »

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #572
thathndude wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If unencrypted iCloud back ups is the price for us getting to keep fully encrypted devices, so be it

If backups aren't encrypted, then neither is your device

You can back them up locally.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#584

Post by echelon »

mistersquid wrote: post #323
justapassenger wrote: post #191

Wonder if this will help to kill a meme, about how much Apple cares about users and what great values they have, how they're going to stand for the user, fight with governments, etc. While iPhone itself is pretty secure as a device phone (and Apple makes sure to remind you about that in each ad, public speaking, attacks on competitors, etc), as an ecosystem it's not secure. And it's like that on purpose - there's no…

> Wonder if this will help to kill a meme, aboyt how much Apple cares about users and what great values they have, how they're going to stand for the user, fight with governments, etc. In this instance, Apple decided to continue to not encrypt iCloud backups because, according to one source, > […] the company did not want to risk being attacked by public officials for protecting criminals, sued for moving previously…

> Apple has a balance to strike between the issues of encryption, privacy, and law enforcement [...]

No, they do not. If Apple wants a reputation for privacy and respecting its customers, then it has to put them first. Don't apologize for them making this user-hostile choice.

We could be merely a generation away from the hell hole that is social credit. We can't afford to keep ceding ground on privacy. We have to engender a sense of importance and urgency.

I'll be very mad at the rest of you lot that choose convenience over privacy, rights, and autonomy if 2030 sees our freedoms and liberties eroded further.

Our collective choices matter, and that's why I'm calling you out.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#585

Post by scarface74 »

Silhouette wrote: post #579
scarface74 wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So while it is “communicating” with iPhones. What exactly is it suppose to communicate over standard protocols that would alleviate the need for an application and still perform all of the functions of iTunes? What other devices perform all of the backup, restore, and os upgrade, functionality of iTunes. The iPhone doesn’t use the standard “usb mass storage” protocol to allow you to download pictures. It uses the pic…

What other devices perform all of the backup, restore, and os upgrade, functionality of iTunes. I've never claimed anything about any other functions of iTunes. I just said it was a problem that Apple devices make it difficult to get your data off using only local transfer. The iPhone doesn’t use the standard “usb mass storage” protocol to allow you to download pictures. It uses the picture transfer protocol. Yes, ex…

So it’s difficult to get data off of your device - even though you can get pictures and video off of your device like any camera and most other documents are stored in their own folders on iCloud - that you can get to either using the iCloud Drive app for Macs or Windows or by logging into iCloud.com.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#586

Post by scarface74 »

_23sd wrote: post #575
scarface74 wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t by itself - but you have neither shown that Apple has surreptitiously uploaded user’s private keys in China or that it was required to do so.

I think the overlooked answer in this conversation is that Apple doesn't need to modify their service for China at all. In in all countries, they hold the encryption keys for most user data. Only these things are E2E encrypted[1]: Home data Health data (requires iOS 12 or later) iCloud Keychain (includes all of your saved accounts and passwords) Payment information QuickType Keyboard learned vocabulary (requires iOS…

Or you can specifically turn off iCloud for iMessages in settings....

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#587

Post by catalogia »

artificial wrote: post #571
Proziam wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is among the most technologically-literate demographics in the world. Using HN as a control group to say that it's been 'known and talked about' is a bit disingenuous when we're the proverbial 1% who are in the know. Meanwhile, the other 99% are left trusting Apple's advertising.

Just to understand this better is it that Apple is misleading or the public is uninformed? Trusting 3rd parties should default to “others have access including law enforcement” behavior.

> "Just to understand this better is it that Apple is misleading or the public is uninformed?"

That's a false dichotomy. I'd say both are true. Both are usually true.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#588

Post by netheril96 »

Proziam wrote: post #473
matwood wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been known and talked about on HN for a long time that only certain things are E2E encrypted on iCloud. And, if full privacy was the goal, then either the user can only do local backups or no backups at all.

HN is among the most technologically-literate demographics in the world. Using HN as a control group to say that it's been 'known and talked about' is a bit disingenuous when we're the proverbial 1% who are in the know. Meanwhile, the other 99% are left trusting Apple's advertising.

Yet many HNers did not know about this before today. Even more evidence how misleading Apple has been on this.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#589

Post by _23sd »

scarface74 wrote: post #586
_23sd wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the overlooked answer in this conversation is that Apple doesn't need to modify their service for China at all. In in all countries, they hold the encryption keys for most user data. Only these things are E2E encrypted[1]: Home data Health data (requires iOS 12 or later) iCloud Keychain (includes all of your saved accounts and passwords) Payment information QuickType Keyboard learned vocabulary (requires iOS…

Or you can specifically turn off iCloud for iMessages in settings....

Maybe the fraction of users who do that is small enough that China won't push them on it. Or (this would be relatively easy to check) they could just hide that option in settings when the device region is China.

Another factor to consider is that SMS and iMessage are rarely used in China due to SMS historically being more expensive than email/data over there.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained

#590

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

xvector wrote: post #562
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the pinephone, which isn't as nice but is 1. way cheaper, and 2. shipping already.

I thought Librem 5 is also shipping?

Ah, I stand corrected and you are right; they do indeed to be shipping, including additional batches every few months.
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