Every Google result now looks like an ad • Hacker News Board

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#491

Post by bduerst » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

dessant wrote: post #412

bduerst wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true. CDNs host AMP sites on their own domains and infrastructure, independent of Google: https://amp.cloudflare.com/

By "their CDN" I meant Google, Cloudflare and Microsoft. Can we set up our own CDN to serve our own content from our own servers and receive the AMP badge in search results? Please disclose your affiliation to Google either in your bio or in comments, and don't post the same comment in multiple places.

I see what you're saying but im not sure that's a problem - how many people are building CDNs in their garages that need to be certified?

Also, everything I say on HN reflects my own opinion and not any organization, which is what my profile states. I do not hide behind an anonymous username precisely for this reason. Poisoning the well by doxxing me doesn't change how the AMP standard works for CDNs either, and only serves to derail the conversation.

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#492

Post by hosh » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

My understanding is that the Google culture has shifted dramatically from engineering-driven to money-driven.

It reminded me of the story that got posted about Boeing: https://qz.com/1776080/how-the-mcdonnell-douglas-boeing-merg...

I don't know if people will necessarily die, like it did with the 737 Max. But I wouldn't be surprised if the key underpinnings of a participatory democracy gets compromised.

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#493

Post by shadow-banned » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

333c wrote: post #267

Guest0918231 wrote: post #252

It's funny, because if you run AdSense on your website, Google has very strict guidelines about not misleading users and making a clear distinction between advertisements and your content. However, when Google shows ads on their site, they don't need to follow those rules, they blend them in as closely as possible. Also, what's the deal with showing an advertisement for the same result that's number one? See the belo…

They display both because Google is selling ad space on searches like these, where people search the name of a site. If that site doesn't buy the ad, their competitor will. So sites are being forced to buy ads on their own trademark.

This is the correct answer, not the other answers below. We call it branded search, or brand protection placements.

This is the sort of practice that will get Google in trouble with Congress.

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#494

Post by lrem » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 9:49 PM UTC

JoeSmithson wrote: post #455

ChuckMcM wrote: post #453

Very much a way to mitigate the FTC's requirements on making advertising more distinct than organic results. It is an unpopular opinion but I believe Google is dying. They have been for a long time. The cancer is that nothing other than search ads generates the revenue and margins they need and the margins on search ads are now down 90% from where they were in 2010. Personally I'm long on Microsoft/Bing as a candidat…

> "the margins on search ads are now down 90% from where they were in 2010." Do you have a source for this?

This is publicly available data, published quarterly in the financial statement... I don't recall ever hearing about that kind of a drop.

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#495

Post by noizejoy » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 9:49 PM UTC

ProAm wrote: post #159

danShumway wrote: post #105

Prefer DuckDuckGo for searching, if possible. If you don't like DuckDuckGo's results and can't tolerate them, then prefer Startpage to Google, which will give you the same algorithm minus tracking/customization. Even post-acquisition, Startpage is still a more privacy-conscious engine than Google, and their ads are better labeled. And while I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, quick reminder that unless you're r…

Startpage is now owned by an advertising company.[Y] [Y] https://www.startpage.com/blog/company-updates/startpage-and...

I really wish discussions would better distinguish between tracking, advertising, and camouflaged advertising.

I actually like advertising as one avenue of finding stuff.

I just hate when tracking is bundled with advertising. And I hate when advertising is camouflaged.

In practical terms:

When I’m searching for guitars, I like seeing both: third party results and ads that are not camouflaged.

I also like seeing guitar ads on a guitar related website.

But I hate seeing guitar ads on an unrelated website, just because I looked at a guitar website a few days ago. And I hate when a guitar ad is camouflaged as an independent review.

An advertising company that doesn’t track or camouflage gets my support. And I just hope that StartPage is and remains that kind of company.

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#496

Post by baxtr » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 9:50 PM UTC

cytzol wrote: post #26

I've been in this A/B test for a couple of months now, so I've had time to adjust, and I still hate it. I've just become so used to seeing the complete URL in green. The complete URL! If you hover over the results, you'll see that they like to take bits like numeric components or the query string out. This is part of Google's attempt to de-prioritise the URL. Their destructive AMP service confusingly shows you Google…

Google hates strong SEO sites, because they won't make them any money. So that's a clever way of pushing them further down. I wondered when all results on the first page will be Ads only.

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#497

Post by dnh44 » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 9:51 PM UTC

aquova wrote: post #418

enterabdazer wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt the same about Google alternatives up until about 3 months ago. Google's results have been declining in quality for a decade, with much more rapid decline over the past year or three. Google's results are uglier and blatantly revenue based. They have now lapsed behind DuckDuckGo in usefulness for me. I fall back to Google a few times per week, with inconsistent results when I need a "second opinion." I'd sugge…

Do you (or anyone else) have any recommendations for an email service? I've cut pretty much everything Google out of my life, minus Gmail, mostly due to not wanting to go through all the trouble of transferring everything over to a service that I end up not liking. I've heard ProtonMail is good, but other than that, I'm not sure.

Migadu is great because they bill based on emails sent rather than billing by how many accounts or domains you have.

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#498

Post by dessant » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 9:53 PM UTC

joshuamorton wrote: post #482

dessant wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "their CDN" I meant Google, Cloudflare and Microsoft. Can we set up our own CDN to serve our own content from our own servers and receive the AMP badge in search results? Please disclose your affiliation to Google either in your bio or in comments, and don't post the same comment in multiple places.

> Can we set up our own CDN to serve our own content from our own servers and receive the AMP badge in search results This...doesn't make sense. You lose the value of a CDN (both to you and to the consumer of your content, in this case Google and the end user) if you're rolling your own.

It no longer makes sense to be able serve our own content without it being pushed down in search results?

We were talking about CDNs because your collegue mentioned AMP CDNs, but the main point doesn't change: we cannot serve our own content from our own servers and get the same placement in search results as AMP content, even if our content loads verifiably fast and is as performant as an AMP page on the client.

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#499

Post by mthoms » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 9:53 PM UTC

sukilot wrote: post #248

mthoms wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you are all whining about: the organic results have icons and the ad says "Ad" instead. You're being condescending but appear to have missed the point. The "Ad" text in Google's results is in the exact same position and is effectively the same pixel dimensions as the favicon. It's cleverly designed and placed to resemble a favicon, to give the over-all layout more uniformity between ads and organic results. As a use…

DDG is hiding the "Ad" label on their shopping carousel, with unreadable #888 light grey text. That part is worse than Google's darker #666 (and longer word) "Sponsored". The screenshot doesn't show any Ad links in the text list results (unless the ads are wholly unlabeled). It's not really the same case as the OP.

You're right, good catch.

One could argue the words surrounding the carousel on DGG ("Shopping" and "Ad") are slightly more transparent than Google's "Sponsored" heading, but that's splitting hairs I guess.

In either case, I find both carousels pretty obvious in their intent. Maybe it's because the prices are being shown? I think more sophisticated internet users are trained to know that when you see a $xx.xx price on the internet, along with a link to purchase the item, there's probably some kind of commercial relationship happening behind the scenes.

These days, whenever I see a product mentioned anywhere on the web with links to purchase it, I default to assuming it's an affiliate link.

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#500

Post by lol768 » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 9:54 PM UTC

bduerst wrote: post #491

dessant wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "their CDN" I meant Google, Cloudflare and Microsoft. Can we set up our own CDN to serve our own content from our own servers and receive the AMP badge in search results? Please disclose your affiliation to Google either in your bio or in comments, and don't post the same comment in multiple places.

I see what you're saying but im not sure that's a problem - how many people are building CDNs in their garages that need to be certified? Also, everything I say on HN reflects my own opinion and not any organization, which is what my profile states. I do not hide behind an anonymous username precisely for this reason. Poisoning the well by doxxing me doesn't change how the AMP standard works for CDNs either, and only…

>Everything I say on HN reflects my own opinion and not any organizations, which is what my profile states

Sorry, but I agree with dessant. Your profile doesn't disclose your affiliation and nor do your comments. It's absolutely relevant to the discussion, because whether you want to admit it or not (or try your best to act neutral), your day job will have some influence over your opinions on these sort of projects.

You're right that it doesn't change objective facts about the specification, but I think it's misleading to suggest that, in general, external third-party CDNs are first class citizens in the AMP ecosystem when they're not treated the same within search.