How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy • Hacker News Board

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#231

Post by blackrock » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 8:46 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #60

geff82 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone with a regular job can not afford a house close to a major city any more and for sure can not afford any desirable German car. People dress cheaply, buy used cars and many live in frugal appartments, buy in stores that many American or Canadians would consider third world (never ever go buy stuff in an Aldi when you are used to Canadian standards...).

Indeed, expats are lured here thinking Germany is the Promised Land but realize too late that they can't afford to buy a family worthy home on your average white collar wage and due to how German corporate politics work, most of the non-natives are locked out of the lucrative careers even when speaking the language. Like someone said, Germany is a rich country of poor people.

> most of the non-natives are locked out of the lucrative careers even when speaking the language

How is this not institutional racism? Or something that leads to inequality because of one’s ethnicity? Imagine if a person of African or Asian descent, who tries to rise up in German society, and get one of these jobs. Is the response: “Well, tough luck buddy, you shouldn’t have come to Germany to begin with.”

Doesn’t Germany pride themselves on being equal opportunity and democratically elected?

Or is that all a facade, and the Germans never really believed in that bullshit anyways. And it was all about putting the Germans first, before all others.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#232

Post by glofish » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 8:52 PM UTC

Tainnor wrote: post #220

glofish wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Aldi in the Americas (midwest) are not even remotely similar in quality to the Aldi's of Europe. Walmart supercenters have much higher quality - every larger town has mainstream and cheap grocers substantially better than Aldi in every respect. To me, Aldi for food is like Goodwill for clothes. I understand that some people hit hard times and have no other options, but my perception is that if you shop there it p…

I personally don't like discounters (including Aldi), but a lot of people that are not in financial trouble go shopping there. Sometimes even well-off people. Germans can be very frugal, and this is especially true when it comes to food (although there are signs that this is starting to change).

It is fine to be frugal or go discount shopping - it is the quality of food at the American Aldi that felt me to like a really bad deal.

The chicken thighs say cost fifty cents (not sure of the price but utterly cheap), but once you cook it was almost inedible, a mixture of fat and big thick bones - felt like not even fit for human consumption.

Again European Aldi's are not like that.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#233

Post by onlyrealcuzzo » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 8:55 PM UTC

rb808 wrote: post #223

durnygbur wrote: post #34

The most un-understandable thing is that none of this export wealth reaches an individual, especially a guest worker, a foreigner. It's quite shocking to discover by a foreigner specialist lured to the country by the multitude of positive economic news. Cost-cutting and exorbitant charges and contributions everywhere. The entire export wealth is captured by the oligarch families and the highest level executive caste.

Its great being in an egalitarian country there is less poverty but middle classes have much less money than America, someone has to pay for it and it isnt the billionaires.

It's interesting to me how people view Europe as more equal than the US.

Not that the US is a bastion of fairness, but there seems to be a teeny-tiny miniscule amount of meritocracy in the labor force. This doesn't really seem to exist in most of Europe.

The top 10% of earners don't make much more than the bottom 10%. Meanwhile, aristocrats are richer than the median by more than in the US.

This seems like the opposite of Marx's dreams...

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#234

Post by iSnow » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 8:56 PM UTC

lispm wrote: post #152

What is often overlooked is this: Germany was export-oriented before the Euro, during the transition and with the Euro. Germany was export-oriented before reunification, during reunification and after reunification. The industry will adopt to those external factors: Germany was 'Exportweltmeister' with the super strong DM (which dominated European currencies) and it is a leading export nation with the Euro. There are…

There's also one glaring error in the text that can only be explained by hindsight wisdom:

>The Single Market launched just four months later, in January 1993, though something like it had been in the works for a while. But on that launch date was there anyone in Europe with any doubts about which nation — which “area” — was ascendant, economically speaking?

Germany in 1993 was in no shape or form to be the ascending economic superpower, in fact 1993 was a recession year: https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/embed/?s=wgdpgerm&v=20.... That of course is due to reunification which was extremely costly at the time and the implosion of the former socialist economy hindered growth massively.

Germany got extremely lucky with its timing - when the exchange rate for the DM to EUR conversion was fixed, the German economy was still in dire straits, so it was basically undervalued. But the German companies used the sudden strategic location of the country between east and west to massively invest in production capacities in the former eastern block to keep production costs low while selling to the industrialized neighbors in the west.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#235

Post by aeyes » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 9:00 PM UTC

TillE wrote: post #102

owenversteeg wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Aldi is "third world"? What on earth? I personally shop in Lidl, not Aldi, but Lidl is often compared to Aldi, about as popular and occupies the same price segment. And I eat like a king from there! Excellent protected origin cheeses, meats, wines, organic products... Half the time I leave the Lidl I go with a shopping cart that would make an American foodie drool. My most recent purchase there included Manchego…

Look, I like I lot of things about Germany, but the supermarkets here are a joke. There's more product variety in a single Whole Foods in America than there is in the entire combined inventory of all German supermarkets. Most processed foods (ready meals, frozen pizzas, etc) are also extremely low quality.

Aldi, Lidl, Netto, etc aren't supermarkets. They are discounters.

Go to a real supermarket like Kaufland or Globus.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#236

Post by biztos » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 9:07 PM UTC

lispm wrote: post #152

What is often overlooked is this: Germany was export-oriented before the Euro, during the transition and with the Euro. Germany was export-oriented before reunification, during reunification and after reunification. The industry will adopt to those external factors: Germany was 'Exportweltmeister' with the super strong DM (which dominated European currencies) and it is a leading export nation with the Euro. There are…

Some members of my extended family own a company (actually a small family of companies) in that category, and of course it's in Swabia.

They are market leaders in some very high-margin things most people never think about, and interestingly they sell a lot in Asia, where one might expect them to be more vulnerable to competition. German Quality is a huge brand worldwide.

I also have a friend in Berlin who's sort of inheriting the family business, manufacturing something so random I always forget what it is. Involves rubber I think. High margins, privately-held family business, etc.

I really think a lot of these companies, if they were in the US, would either go public (the bigger ones) or be sold up to a bigger concern. But in Germany you'd have to pay a really big premium to get your hands on someone's multi-generational family business. As long as there are kids to inherit the factories then that's what they're gonna do.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#237

Post by onlyrealcuzzo » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 9:15 PM UTC

durnygbur wrote: post #106

idclip wrote: post #58

Theres a reason the Politics is becoming extreme, the largest economy is simply neglecting its citizens and simply saving a lot. Edit: not trying to troll. Many are thankful, but many are worried aswell. I/we dont consider it difficult to understand. Work hard, save, dont go to wars, its a simple equation, but its not all rosey, and things arent perfect. Many claim this prosperity to be illusory, and fear a harsh cri…

Seeing their elites enjoying themselves on the southern French coast, Italian and Spanish islands, Caribbeans, and wherever else the last thing that comes to mind is that they're "saving a lot". It's more like they decide on whose cost the "saving a lot" will happen - employed taxpayer.

Yes, the income tax is close to 50% for almost everyone, and yet the capital gains tax is just as low as in the US. Less progressive. Arguably MORE favorable to the wealthy (since the rich have a more significant tax discount in the EU than the US). And yet workers there think it's more equal. I guess they have a point. It's more equal amongst laborers. Only because no laborers make a decent wage, and minimum wage is slightly better there.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#238

Post by mambojumbo » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 9:15 PM UTC

gdrulia wrote: post #136

mambojumbo wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German products arent as high quality ad they used to be and most if them are pretty stale in terms of innovation. Sure they change the shape of cars and add new leds and interior eye candy but that is not progress. Imo german cars are low quality and lack diversity, and same goes for most machinery made in that country. US, Japanese, South Korean or other EU made products can be of similar or higher quality. Germany…

Disclaimer: I'm from Lithuania, little eastern Europe country. There has been a lot of talk about eastern Europe being a junkyard for german cars (or old european cars in general) in recents times, not the least locally, especially by politicians trying to justify weird decisions. Most of the time one vital factor remains overlooked, people don't have money for anything else here. German cars are valued by most the p…

People cant afford buying cars made outside europe because they are heavily taxed. So instead the whole continent is polluted to prop up the german economy. When the rest of the continent needs propping, germany starts name calling and forcing there governments to tax people and businesses to death. Not to mention over regulation in the name of “safety” or “insert populist mantra” that are usually met by german companies and are a burden to most other economies. Germans wont buy Lithuanian products because those are “low quality” but they buy chinese. So instead of allowing the eu to deregulate, to relax “standards”, and to enable innovation, germany does the opposite so you, in lithuania, cant compete and always lag - therefore only live on a 1500 eur budget. Fortunately end of game for the eu is in sight and if your country stays democratic it will grow to afford more.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#239

Post by hackeraccount » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 9:17 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #60

geff82 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone with a regular job can not afford a house close to a major city any more and for sure can not afford any desirable German car. People dress cheaply, buy used cars and many live in frugal appartments, buy in stores that many American or Canadians would consider third world (never ever go buy stuff in an Aldi when you are used to Canadian standards...).

Indeed, expats are lured here thinking Germany is the Promised Land but realize too late that they can't afford to buy a family worthy home on your average white collar wage and due to how German corporate politics work, most of the non-natives are locked out of the lucrative careers even when speaking the language. Like someone said, Germany is a rich country of poor people.

There's a connection there between Germany's export successes and "rich country of poor people."

There's also a connection between why do Germans save so much and import so little.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#240

Post by graphicsRat » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 9:18 PM UTC

According to American Society of Mechanical Engineers one reason Germany has kept is industrial base are the Fraunhofer Institutes you will find all over the country right next to universities doing essentially free R&D in almost every area of technology for companies that might otherwise not be able to afford them. (I had a student assistant job at one such institute when I was an MSc student in Germany)

https://www.asme.org/topics-resources/content/how-does-germa...