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Cloudflare is turning off the internet for me

blog.dijit.sh

101–110 of 335 posts

Re: Cloudflare is turning off the internet for me

#101
post #17

The problem presented by services like ReCaptcha and Cloudflare is a tough nut to crack. They're silently embedded in a huge portion of modern websites, and the average user will never even know about them. But it seems to be way too easy for them to blanket-ban or serve an absurd amount of captchas to powerusers, linux gurus, privacy geeks, or anyone with the wrong combination of browser+addons. And the failures (as…

Yeah, you can't really talk about downsides of Recaptcha/Cloudflare without also acknowledging the extreme amount of malicious actors and abuse on the internet. We're in a "this is why we can't have nice things" predicament and you have malicious actors to thank for that, yet most people on HN only seem capable of attacking the few affordable solutions to that problem. I'm even down with the theory that Cloudflare is…

The problem is that the narrative has been poisoned by Cloudflare and Google (for Recaptcha) - they both overstate the size of the problem, as well as the effectiveness of their solution.

In other words: when someone demands "real solutions", they're typically expecting a degree of solution that quite likely just does not exist at all, to solve a problem that isn't as severe as people believe, just because that's the bar that those companies have set in the public discourse.

This makes it impossible for well-intentioned people to 'compete' with these services, because whatever alternative is suggested (hidden form elements, a random VPS provider with DDoS mitigation, serving assets locally, etc.) is immediately dismissed as "that can't possibly be as effective / effective enough", even though it'd be perfectly adequate for the vast majority of cases.

The alternative and competitive solutions exist, and have existed for a long time. You don't need a 1:1 replacement for these services. People just often refuse to believe that the simple alternatives work, and won't even bother trying.

(For completeness, my background is that of having run several sites dealing with user-submitted content, including some very abuse-attracting ones.)

Re: Cloudflare is turning off the internet for me

#102
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am guessing it is the cutting of service to neo-nazi websites: https://www.wired.com/story/free-speech-issue-cloudflare/ Personally, I don't think free speech requires providing services to neo-nazis, but I get the nuances of the case.

[flagged]

That is a ridiculous claim, I honestly can't imagine how anyone could make that in good faith. The website is named after a Nazi tabloid that was so virulent its publisher was executed at Nuremberg. The website's style guide for guest writers talks about the importance of "gassing kikes". If a website that glorifies Adolf Hitler, fascism, and genocide isn't enough to be considered neo-Nazi, then what is?

Re: Cloudflare is turning off the internet for me

#103
post #74
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had js turned off by default for many years now, and don't feel like I'm missing out on anything important. Your mileage, of course, may vary.

You're a stronger person than me. I keep trying to live without JS but so little of the internet works. * Gitlab/Github (obviously) * Google maps (obviously) * Linkedin... (uh... less obviously) * Outlook * Infoq.com * Rust docs * Google Cloud Docs etc; A lot of the internet is butchered without JS. I really want a way of just blocking third-party JS (IE; the site can deliver JS, but not anything it tries to import u…

I use noScript with "Allow None by Default" on Firefox while I'm at work and should in theory only be browsing docs anyway. Trying to blanket ban third-party JS wouldn't really work b/c many sites have their legitimate JS on various CDNs. After enabling individual scripts on maybe a dozen sites I'm in good shape when it comes to web browsing day to day.

Re: Cloudflare is turning off the internet for me

#104
post #17

The problem presented by services like ReCaptcha and Cloudflare is a tough nut to crack. They're silently embedded in a huge portion of modern websites, and the average user will never even know about them. But it seems to be way too easy for them to blanket-ban or serve an absurd amount of captchas to powerusers, linux gurus, privacy geeks, or anyone with the wrong combination of browser+addons. And the failures (as…

Yeah, you can't really talk about downsides of Recaptcha/Cloudflare without also acknowledging the extreme amount of malicious actors and abuse on the internet. We're in a "this is why we can't have nice things" predicament and you have malicious actors to thank for that, yet most people on HN only seem capable of attacking the few affordable solutions to that problem. I'm even down with the theory that Cloudflare is…

[deleted]

Re: Cloudflare is turning off the internet for me

#106
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any evidence of this? I'd take a dodgy looking blogspot URL over absolute nothing

In the past, Cloudflare were free speech absolutists. They accepted customers in a content neutral way. When people tried to get them to deplatform ISIS websites, they said this: One of the greatest strengths of the United States is a belief that speech, particularly political speech, is sacred. A website, of course, is nothing but speech... A website is speech. It is not a bomb. There is no imminent danger it create…

> When people started asking why Cloudflare hosts racist and neo-nazi content, they eventually relented from their free speech position and stopped hosting one called The Daily Stormer.

That's not entirely accurate (though I could understand how it seems that way). From the article:

"The tipping point for us making this decision was that the team behind Daily Stormer made the claim that we were secretly supporters of their ideology."

So the issue wasn't what CF was hosting for DS. Rather, it was DS speaking on behalf of CF. In some ways, that's like taking away ones first amendment rights: I have the right to speak for myself, you don't have the right to speak for me.

While it's nuanced, I feel it's fair. And while I'm not some big defender of CF, I feel in this case, they handled it without compromising their 1st Amendment ideals.

Re: Cloudflare is turning off the internet for me

#107
post #17

The problem presented by services like ReCaptcha and Cloudflare is a tough nut to crack. They're silently embedded in a huge portion of modern websites, and the average user will never even know about them. But it seems to be way too easy for them to blanket-ban or serve an absurd amount of captchas to powerusers, linux gurus, privacy geeks, or anyone with the wrong combination of browser+addons. And the failures (as…

4. Outsource. Use a ReCaptcha/Cloudflare filling service (usually just someone else manually typing these in).

I won’t link, but search “ReCaptcha solver” and you’ll find plenty.

It highlights just how broken the system is. It doesn’t stop determined spammers/devs, until the value of the task is lower than the cost to solve.

Considering it’s 50c USD per 1000....

Re: Cloudflare is turning off the internet for me

#108
post #17

The problem presented by services like ReCaptcha and Cloudflare is a tough nut to crack. They're silently embedded in a huge portion of modern websites, and the average user will never even know about them. But it seems to be way too easy for them to blanket-ban or serve an absurd amount of captchas to powerusers, linux gurus, privacy geeks, or anyone with the wrong combination of browser+addons. And the failures (as…

I don't see myself as a poweruser, but it would be very hard for me to give up on my current setup. I honestly do not understand how my wife deal with it. Even with piholed wifi it is a horrifying experience..

Re: Cloudflare is turning off the internet for me

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past, Cloudflare were free speech absolutists. They accepted customers in a content neutral way. When people tried to get them to deplatform ISIS websites, they said this: One of the greatest strengths of the United States is a belief that speech, particularly political speech, is sacred. A website, of course, is nothing but speech... A website is speech. It is not a bomb. There is no imminent danger it create…

> Since then, they've stopped working with a number of other sites due to content, like 8chan. I believe that number is 1, and that the only two sites they've shut off service to are Daily Stormer and 8chan.

I think if your business helps 20,000,000 groups of people talk to each other (sites), you get to once or twice be like, "Ok, you guys are clearly murderers plotting murders, can you go do it somewhere else?" Haha.

Re: Cloudflare is turning off the internet for me

#110
post #92
post #83

It appears that you may have made some modifications to your user agent string. If you revert your user agent to the one provided by default by your browser vendor everything will be fine.

It appears that setting it to the same as Chromes does indeed work! for context this is what I had set (and, for quite some time it was working): "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:57.0) Gecho/20100101 Firefox/57.0" Ironically I set this so that I could continue logging in to google. Since I had been unable to log in to google-apps without setting this user agent string. What did it fail on? the mis-spelling of "Gec…

That User-Agent won't trigger the block page you were experiencing.

No clue about the issues with Google, perhaps some feature detection going on?

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