Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Glenn Greenwald Charged with Cybercrimes in Brazil

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 181 posts

Re: Glenn Greenwald Charged with Cybercrimes in Brazil

#71

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

kaonashi wrote: post #55
snowwrestler wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking whether they "swung" the election is an unnecessarily high bar. The question is whether they influenced the election, and the answer is a pretty clear yes. Russian hacks of the DNC and John Podesta, and the ensuing leaks, drove front-page headlines and cable news coverage for weeks in aggregate, if not more.

The DNC came out with the story about the Russian hack very quickly; they can't possibly have known it was them with any accuracy. It could easily have been a leak, and the Russia story was simply to deflect from the content of the leak.

IIRC the DNC was using Crowstrike for their AV and security who interestingly has a lot of their company based in Ukraine, and both CS and DNC refused to allow the FBI access to servers and logs to verify the Russian attack.

IDK much about much, but that sure does seem questionable to me.

Re: Glenn Greenwald Charged with Cybercrimes in Brazil

#72

Post by mistermann »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #32
creaghpatr wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's referencing this direct quote from the Mueller report: "Volume I of the report concludes that the investigation did not find sufficient evidence that the campaign "coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election-interference activities" Seems pretty cut and dry.

It's not. Investigators ultimately had an incomplete picture of what happened due to communications that were encrypted, deleted or unsaved, as well as testimony that was false, incomplete or declined. However, the report stated that Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election was illegal and occurred "in sweeping and systematic fashion", but was welcomed by the Trump campaign as it expected to benefit fro…

Am I the only one that believes that such narrative and speculative writing style by officials is actively harmful to democracy?

Phrases like:

- in sweeping and systematic fashion

- was welcomed by the Trump campaign

- links between

- ties to

- connected to

Granted, communicating the complexities of reality is very difficult, but I sincerely do not believe that a serious effort has been made in this case (or is in other cases, in general) to as accurately and clearly as possible communicate(!) that which is "known" (including the degree of certainty), versus that which is suspected, etc.

Psychologists and neurologists have very little understanding of the underlying mechanisms by which people form beliefs, but they do know that it is extremely complex, and can easily be demonstrated to be highly prone to error or manipulation.

Considering this, in a serious political system (as seems to be the common claim of what we have in Western democratic nations), I would expect more bi-partisan (among politicians and citizens) acknowledgement of these shortcomings, and support for a process of continuous improvement in the manner in which the public is informed of affairs. But instead, I rarely see this idea discussed, and it seems to me the aggregate manner in which reality is being described to us is becoming more chaotic/uncertain/indecipherable, not less.

My intuition tells me this is not accidental, but of course there is no way of knowing if that is true or not. But, I think it would be beneficial for the public to become more aware of this phenomenon, and start drawing attention to this attribute of public discussions on a regular basis - in doing so, perhaps the quality of discourse could be improved.

Re: Glenn Greenwald Charged with Cybercrimes in Brazil

#73

Post by diegoholiveira »

sangnoir wrote: post #64
diegoholiveira wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the diference is that the source of this case is a person that choose to colaborate. In the case in question, we're talking about hacking private phones (not those provided by the government as corporate phone). I don't think the same principle can be applied here.

The Times, by publishing classified information, were themselves potentially violating the Espionage Act (according to the government's assertion) - so the principle applies in more ways than by proxy. Which is why it was vital that the courts ruling affirmed the importance of a free press, despite laws that might be used to gag it.

Classified information is public information (belongs to the government and have a deadline to be disclosed), so makes sense to apply the same principle of New York Times v United States (1971).

But hacking private phones sounds like a new question to me.

Re: Glenn Greenwald Charged with Cybercrimes in Brazil

#74

Post by epx »

crazynick4 wrote: post #65
epx wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the story Greenwald is selling, which I disagree with in many points.

What points? You make it sound as if he stood to profit from this when the outcome has been clearly the opposite, and he himself had predicted it to be as much. His family has been getting death threats as a result of his work, and these carry a lot more weight in Brasil then they would in some country like the US or somewhere in Europe. He is a very credible journalist and his story was widely well-received, his met…

People are so politically polarized these days, I feel it is a waste of time trying to argue.

Re: Glenn Greenwald Charged with Cybercrimes in Brazil

#76

Post by GhettoMaestro »

crazynick4 wrote: post #42
diegoholiveira wrote: post #36

It's important to notice that he's not been charged for publishing those materials. He's been charged for giving instructions to the hackers about targets and contents, like a lider of the hackers. So, it's not a leak, it's a content obtained illegally through a series of crimes.

This is something journalists do all the time. If a source comes to you, even with illegally obtained materials, it is normal for a journalist to ask for more, that's their job.

When a "journalist" starts participating in the creation/prioritization of the target list, the line has been crossed.

Re: Glenn Greenwald Charged with Cybercrimes in Brazil

#77

Post by jariel »

crazynick4 wrote: post #42
diegoholiveira wrote: post #36

It's important to notice that he's not been charged for publishing those materials. He's been charged for giving instructions to the hackers about targets and contents, like a lider of the hackers. So, it's not a leak, it's a content obtained illegally through a series of crimes.

This is something journalists do all the time. If a source comes to you, even with illegally obtained materials, it is normal for a journalist to ask for more, that's their job.

Was it 'asking for more' or 'helping' with said activities?

I think there is materially a difference.

That said, I don't know the specifics of the case, I'd be interested in hearing if there is material legitimacy to the case.

If they are jailing a reporter for essentially publishing data and merely 'communicating' with individuals ... this would be bad.

Also - there is the question of the legitimacy of publishing hacked data.

If someone hacked into your phone, and published it, it would be a crime. If they gave it to a journalist, not a crime?

If there is uncovering of actual, illegal activities, then it changes the dynamic, but what if it's not? What if the 'details' are just embarrassing, or problematic for those hacked? Do we want to legitimise theft for political objectives?

Re: Glenn Greenwald Charged with Cybercrimes in Brazil

#78

Post by jariel »

freepor wrote: post #3

Oof. I don’t know why he would stay in Brazil while publishing stuff that embarrassed powerful interests in Brazil. You can do that shit in Canada, in Brazil you’re lucky to not get a bullet.

"l. You can do that shit in Canada"

Why would it be legal or even moral to steal property in order to 'embarrass' someone?

This is a very slippery slope. Stealing stuff and then hiding behind 'journalism' is problematic to the extent that there is no material, legal, whistleblowing.

We have to figure out the lines that can and should be crossed, otherwise it won't be good for anyone.

Re: Glenn Greenwald Charged with Cybercrimes in Brazil

#79

Post by onecool »

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #71
kaonashi wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DNC came out with the story about the Russian hack very quickly; they can't possibly have known it was them with any accuracy. It could easily have been a leak, and the Russia story was simply to deflect from the content of the leak.

IIRC the DNC was using Crowstrike for their AV and security who interestingly has a lot of their company based in Ukraine, and both CS and DNC refused to allow the FBI access to servers and logs to verify the Russian attack. IDK much about much, but that sure does seem questionable to me.

The Crowdstrike line is another primary talking point of the paid Russian propagandists.

Re: Glenn Greenwald Charged with Cybercrimes in Brazil

#80

Post by dang »

thescriptkiddie wrote: post #51

There is a disturbing level of pro Bolsonaro astroturfing going on in here. Don't be deceived, Greenwald is a political prisoner.

This comment breaks the site guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). Please read and follow them. If you think you see abuse, follow the rules and email us at hn@ycombinator.com so we can investigate. We take such requests seriously and always look at the data.

Nearly always, commenters who post like this underestimate how large the HN community is, and therefore how divided it is. This causes them to see a huge unexplained hole when comments show up which strike them as outrageously wrong and biased, and then the mind finds it impossible to resist filling in the hole with sinister imaginations: cloak-and-dagger brigades, astroturfing, and all the rest.

When you rush to HN to post those suspicions, you end up undermining and dividing the community even further, as well as changing the topic to something useless, since it's founded on imagination. The solution is not to post such insinuations unless you have objective information that goes beyond how you feel. By "you", of course, I'm not picking on you personally—I mean all of us. This is a bias we all have, and it's super hard to resist when the feeling is strong, because it seems almost impossible that the outrageous comments could be appearing in good faith. In reality, though, what you're experiencing is how intense the underlying social divide is. HN has many users in Brazil. As Brazilian politics is divided, Brazilian politics on HN is divided. And HN has been split down the middle about Greenwald for a long time.

There's an endless stream of prior explanations at https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme..., because this problem is perennial.

p.s. I wish I didn't have to add this, but probably do: this is not a pro-Bolsonaro or anti-Greenwald comment. It is simply pro-HN, based on what makes threads higher vs. lower quality.

Post reply on HN