Every Google result now looks like an ad • Hacker News Board

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#281

Post by DrPhish » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

imiric wrote: post #233

I've been using a local Searx[1] instance for web search for a few months now, and besides it needing an update when APIs inevitably break, it's been relatively pain-free. What I like the most about it is that I get a unified search results page for all engines, which avoids some of the profile bubble, and that the UI is always consistent, avoiding these scummy redesigns A/B tested to infinity and implemented because…

Me too, for about a year.

The anonymizing stuff searx does really seems to work. My search results seem uniformly neutral regardless of which computer/profile/browser is in use.

I host on my LAN and out on the WAN over https protected with simple auth. All my devices, including my work computers and cell phone browsers, are set to use it. I rarely end up on Google in my life.

I actually prefer its interface for everything but images (which are only OK, but still perfectly usable)

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#282

Post by kolanos » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

Google also broke accessibility of their search results with this change. Now instead of the page titles, screen readers only read the entire URL. If they don't fix this soon, I'll be permanently switching to DDG.

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#283

Post by ausjke » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 7:38 PM UTC

from today on I officially set my default search engine to ddg

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#284

Post by mturmon » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 7:38 PM UTC

clarry wrote: post #75

Analemma_ wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work at Bing. If you really want Bing to improve, the best thing you can do is just use it: clicks on search results, plus backs and dwell times, are vital training data. Ideally you could use Bing as your default engine, then fall back to Google whenever there's a search that doesn't yield good results. If you have the time, you can also use the Feedback link on the bottom-right of the page to report bad s…

> I used to work at Bing. If you really want Bing to improve, the best thing you can do is just use it: clicks on search results, plus backs and dwell times, are vital training data. A million flies are attracted to shit. I don't believe this sort of training data will ever become useful if it's in the same pool with the rest of the world. See also: voting with your wallet against the tyranny of the majority of uninf…

The above heuristic arguments seem inherently weaker than the direct experience of someone who used to be on the team that improves the results. They are well-funded and should be able to back out the effects you mention.

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#285

Post by JohnFen » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 7:38 PM UTC

sukilot wrote: post #248

mthoms wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you are all whining about: the organic results have icons and the ad says "Ad" instead. You're being condescending but appear to have missed the point. The "Ad" text in Google's results is in the exact same position and is effectively the same pixel dimensions as the favicon. It's cleverly designed and placed to resemble a favicon, to give the over-all layout more uniformity between ads and organic results. As a use…

DDG is hiding the "Ad" label on their shopping carousel, with unreadable #888 light grey text. That part is worse than Google's darker #666 (and longer word) "Sponsored". The screenshot doesn't show any Ad links in the text list results (unless the ads are wholly unlabeled). It's not really the same case as the OP.

I never noticed that. Perhaps because Google has trained me to ignore anything in the carousel.

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#286

Post by pb7 » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 7:39 PM UTC

JohnFen wrote: post #143

extropy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO Google is doing the best they can to serve you relevant results, just that everyone and their uncle is spamming internet to get up in the ranking game. Think of modern google as a question answering machine not a serch engine. And do "Show me Pioneer 10 subwoofer manufacturer specs" instead of just jamming keywords and hoping for the best.

> IMO Google is doing the best they can to serve you relevant results Maybe, but if so then they're singularly bad at it. Google consistently gives me worse results than DDG and Bing, anyway. I really think it's because Google is trying to figure out what I "really mean" by my search queries, and it's really terrible at guessing.

I'm genuinely asking: can you share an example where the Google results are worse in your opinion than DDG or Bing? Ideally with a screenshot in case there is some personalization going on. I just want to see a very clear example of it so I can try it out for myself.

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#287

Post by SlowRobotAhead » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 7:39 PM UTC

Moru wrote: post #272

LeftHandPath wrote: post #260

I've been using duckduckgo and bing for a while now. Google is just a fallback.

Yes, been using in for several years now. I don't even think of it as duckduckgo any more, it's just search.

The only thing I can’t fully rely on DDG for is on mobile if I search a business on iPhone - I need the address and phone number instantly.

DDG still isn’t as good as google at this.

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#288

Post by KingFelix » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 7:39 PM UTC

lykr0n wrote: post #3

I wish there was a way to directly help Bing/DuckDuckGo/Yandex improve their search results. I've tried both, and it's just not the same. Google I can bang in cryptic queries like > centos 7 tuned no daemon and get the 3rd link about how to run tuned in a no daemon mode. Bing/DuckDuckGo have the article at around 7th or 8th place, but prefaced by a lot of "while technically not wrong, not what I'm looking for" links.…

I have noticed that when trying to find the most recent solution Google shows me an answer that is 10 years old.

ex. Adobe updates come faster than I can update, so I run into issues, so finding the most recent answer is what I am looking for and not a similar issue from Adobe pre CC.

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#289

Post by SlowRobotAhead » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 7:40 PM UTC

reroute1 wrote: post #45

cytzol wrote: post #26

I've been in this A/B test for a couple of months now, so I've had time to adjust, and I still hate it. I've just become so used to seeing the complete URL in green. The complete URL! If you hover over the results, you'll see that they like to take bits like numeric components or the query string out. This is part of Google's attempt to de-prioritise the URL. Their destructive AMP service confusingly shows you Google…

To be fair didn't internet marketers ruin things first by cramming keywords in URLS and page titles to game search engines?

Two wrongs...

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#290

Post by clarry » Tue, Jan 21, 2020, 7:40 PM UTC

mturmon wrote: post #284

clarry wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I used to work at Bing. If you really want Bing to improve, the best thing you can do is just use it: clicks on search results, plus backs and dwell times, are vital training data. A million flies are attracted to shit. I don't believe this sort of training data will ever become useful if it's in the same pool with the rest of the world. See also: voting with your wallet against the tyranny of the majority of uninf…

The above heuristic arguments seem inherently weaker than the direct experience of someone who used to be on the team that improves the results. They are well-funded and should be able to back out the effects you mention.

How are they ever going to know whether they improved results for me or not? You might as well train AI to play a game without ever checking their score. Oh, it's spending 20% more time in each room now and firing fewer bullets than before. Surely it is a better AI now.

Sorry, appeal to authority is no argument. Direct experience is valuable if there's an argument or some real scenario we can dissect, otherwise it's nothing more than a baseless claim. Without concrete examples, it's not even an anecdote. And there are plenty of anecdotes about search results for in-depth content becoming harder and harder to find.

The person I was responding to posted that they're using this training data to order the top 10 results or so. That's already an indication that it's not very helpful for me. I don't get frustrated if the top few results are in suboptimal order, I get frustrated when I get pages and pages of garbage and irrelevant results and can't seem to get anything useful out of it.