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How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

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Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are winners and losers to having a strong currency. It isn't inherently a bad thing to make the currency less valuable.

What are the winners going to be? What industries does Britain Excel at besides finance? I am asking sincerely.

Nobody else can excel because finance dominates and makes other industries less competitive. It's like Dutch disease with money instead of oil.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this limit is raised for heavy cars Yeah, what's that all about? Surely the entire point is to incentivise people to _not_ buy heavy cars, since the lowest emission models (aside from electric cars) are smaller?

Except that the EU is an union of unequal countries, so if Germany (which is one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful country in EU) want to keep an industrial edge via a special case in law, they're going to get it.

There are several countries in the EU that likes and produces big an heavy cars, Germany is not alone, my guess from this post is that France primarily produce smaller cars. To make any difference we should make it easy and cheap to buy fast electric bicycles since they have a lifecycle emission that is about one tenth of cars (Blondel, Mispelon, and Ferguson 2011). At the moment customs for chinese electric bicycles are really high in EU.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#43

The most un-understandable thing is that none of this export wealth reaches an individual, especially a guest worker, a foreigner. It's quite shocking to discover by a foreigner specialist lured to the country by the multitude of positive economic news. Cost-cutting and exorbitant charges and contributions everywhere. The entire export wealth is captured by the oligarch families and the highest level executive caste.

Someone with a regular job can not afford a house close to a major city any more and for sure can not afford any desirable German car. People dress cheaply, buy used cars and many live in frugal appartments, buy in stores that many American or Canadians would consider third world (never ever go buy stuff in an Aldi when you are used to Canadian standards...).

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#44
Paul Krugman often rails against German industrial policy vis-a-vis the EU and hits a lot of the same notes in this article. On the other hand, most of the EU countries seem to accept this status quo and many of their citizens end up immigrating to Germany directly or benefiting from the massive EU subsidy regime funded by Germany so there are various forms of wealth re-distribution within the union.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#45
post #17

„ France and the UK were opposed to German reunification, and attempted to influence the Soviet Union to stop it.[8] However, in late 1989 France extracted German commitment to the Monetary Union in return for support for German reunification.[9]“ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_euro

Yeah, France wanted to use the Euro currency to reign in the German economy. Funny how that ended up backfiring decades later with Germany running the show.

As they say in Germany: "Bedenke wohl, worum du bittest. Es könnte dir gewährt werden." ("Consider well what you ask for. It could be granted to you.").

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#46

Very informative. Does this imply that Brexit is the rational choice for the UK?

Mostly likely, the quest for a rational justification for brexit will continue.

Quest over! If you're actually interested in understanding the reasons for Brexit and you should before making such comments, try this https://briefingsforbrexit.com. Not recommended for those with a short attention span.

"Briefings for Brexit is a small group of volunteers, mainly academics, who set up the website in 2017 in order to provide reasoned factual material to help to inform the national debate on Brexit. Most of its members did not previously know each other. The two co-editors are Graham Gudgin and Robert Tombs, both of Cambridge University. Its contributors come from a range of academic disciplines and universities, and cover the whole political spectrum: their names can be found on our website. The group has no links with any political party. Neither of the editors receives any payment, not do any of the contributors. The newsletter editor, a student, receives a small payment. Briefings for Brexit is entirely funded by well-wishers."

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Britain already used its own currency, so they didn't have the same sort of 'Greece and Spain suffering to subsidize German exports' effect going on. So I don't think this particular issue will be different from before Brexit. ETA: It will matter if the City continues to dominate European financial transactions, because it is the tremendous amount of money that goes to the City which keeps the Pound priced above the…

Their goods would also be subject to EU tariffs depending on how trade talks go and the EU accounts for ~50% of UK trade iirc. So it's still very up in the air.

Yes. I am not an economist, and even if I were, there are so many moving parts to Brexit I could not begin to calculate which ones are the most important.

But I do believe that financial exports (which is what the US and UK have specialized in since the Reagan/Thatcher era) create Dutch Disease just like natural resource extraction does, making the currency too valuable for high employment sectors and concentrating profits in low-employment sectors.

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#48
I've said it before in another comment [1]:

>There's nothing I enjoy more than the plight of the German Saver, who's obsession with "fiscal responsibility" has led to shitty austerity politics all across the EU (to be fair some other northern European countries like Netherlands also share the same view) and depressed growth for the poorer southern European countries. Germany has benefited most of all from the unfinished project of the EU. Without becoming a federal union like the US, but having a common currency, Germany's exports have been artificially cheaper and thus more competitive for over 20 years.

>This is the natural outcome from the obsession with running fiscal surpluses. Now Germany is on the brink of recession and they're finally starting to make some noises about fiscal spending, but the politics will likely limit it to modest deficits than anything transformational. Enjoy the negative rates.

The common currency (Eurozone) is deeply flawed and it only allows a rich country like Germany to win at the expense of poorer countries like Greece or Portugal. I find it insane that EU politics have never really dealt with this. I find it absolutely insane that after the 2011 sovereign debt crisis, Germany somehow managed to escape with keeping the Eurozone intact and having the poor countries impose austerity instead.

There absolutely needs to be a political revolution in the Eurozone countries. Either complete the EU project by becoming a United States of Europe, and receive all the equalizing payments of healthcare, social security, and common military spending at the federal level, or get rid of the common currency. It's just hurting the poorest people in the Eurozone to keep the current arrangement.

You might be under the impression "well Germany might be parasitic vis a vis other Eurozone countries, but at least it's good for working Germans", but you'd be wrong.

The US today has a tight labor market which will eventually drive wages up if it persists long enough. Germany on the other hand has similar employment statistics but they did it with the Hartz reforms [2]. The unemployment stats look great because you can get a shitty low wage job [3].

Germany has kept the wages of workers depressed in order to be an export powerhouse. It's parasitic on other Eurozone neighbors but also on German workers. The people who have benefited the most from this arrangement are the German capital class. The shareholders and managerial class of German industry, whether it's giants like Volkswagen or even the small Mittelstand companies. German workers should have gotten wealthier over time which would have made Germany similar to the US in being driven by domestic consumption. That in turn would have made other EU members better off because those wealthier Germans would have been able to consume more of their goods and services. It's truly baffling how even German workers have put up with this. They're losing to the benefit of German capital.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20793982

[2] https://theconversation.com/questioning-the-claim-of-germany...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_employment#Germany

Re: How Germany is able to run the world’s second largest export economy

#50
post #43

The most un-understandable thing is that none of this export wealth reaches an individual, especially a guest worker, a foreigner. It's quite shocking to discover by a foreigner specialist lured to the country by the multitude of positive economic news. Cost-cutting and exorbitant charges and contributions everywhere. The entire export wealth is captured by the oligarch families and the highest level executive caste.

Someone with a regular job can not afford a house close to a major city any more and for sure can not afford any desirable German car. People dress cheaply, buy used cars and many live in frugal appartments, buy in stores that many American or Canadians would consider third world (never ever go buy stuff in an Aldi when you are used to Canadian standards...).

I've only visited briefly, but Aldi in Germany was higher quality than any Aldi I've been to in the US.
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