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Epic Tells Customers It Will Stop Google Cloud Integrations

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Re: Epic Tells Customers It Will Stop Google Cloud Integrations

#161

Post by foota »

raxxorrax wrote: post #155
leoh wrote: post #140

Google is absolutely doing the right thing. Anything that can be done to enhance the efficacy of EMR software will help lead to better patient outcomes. As far as I can tell, Google is approaching the problem foremost from the perspective of "how can we make people healthier by making software more effective." Epic and Cerner are simply not doing that. Somewhere in the comments here someone mentioned that most EMR so…

The problem I have with this is the simple fact, that an ad company can never know my medical history. Intentions and benefits aside, this is not solvable by Google. > people aren't unreasonably paranoid about data misuse Is this a joke? Google is an ad company. And if I look at the US, I think there are periphery problems here. What really improves the situation in the medical field are large databases of indication…

GCP is not an ad company

Re: Epic Tells Customers It Will Stop Google Cloud Integrations

#162

Post by raxxorrax »

foota wrote: post #161
raxxorrax wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem I have with this is the simple fact, that an ad company can never know my medical history. Intentions and benefits aside, this is not solvable by Google. > people aren't unreasonably paranoid about data misuse Is this a joke? Google is an ad company. And if I look at the US, I think there are periphery problems here. What really improves the situation in the medical field are large databases of indication…

GCP is not an ad company

The income of the owning company comes to 85% from advertising. It is pretty save to say that they are an ad company.

It is also very likely that any data collected is used to reinforce and consolidate their main business.

Re: Epic Tells Customers It Will Stop Google Cloud Integrations

#163

Post by achow »

raxxorrax wrote: post #162
foota wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GCP is not an ad company

The income of the owning company comes to 85% from advertising. It is pretty save to say that they are an ad company. It is also very likely that any data collected is used to reinforce and consolidate their main business.

I highly doubt this. A company of that size with separate P&L division (ex. GCP), operate like collection of mini companies.

Executive of one 'mini company' is free to take their own decision which is good for their division and their OKR.

Re: Epic Tells Customers It Will Stop Google Cloud Integrations

#164

Post by sz4kerto »

cle wrote: post #148
leoh wrote: post #140

Google is absolutely doing the right thing. Anything that can be done to enhance the efficacy of EMR software will help lead to better patient outcomes. As far as I can tell, Google is approaching the problem foremost from the perspective of "how can we make people healthier by making software more effective." Epic and Cerner are simply not doing that. Somewhere in the comments here someone mentioned that most EMR so…

I try hard not to give my data to Google, for a lot of reasons. As a patient, having my healthcare provider hand my data over for them to monetize in God-knows-what ways is...undesirable.

This is where things get mixed up. EPIC is suggesting that using Google Cloud is somehow equivalent with handing data over to Google so that Google works with that data.

These are absolutely, extremely different. Assuming that Google will somehow break into your VMs or GKE clusters to get data out and monetize it is crazy, of course, but EPIC tries to suggest that.

Re: Epic Tells Customers It Will Stop Google Cloud Integrations

#165

Post by ENGNR »

foota wrote: post #161
raxxorrax wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem I have with this is the simple fact, that an ad company can never know my medical history. Intentions and benefits aside, this is not solvable by Google. > people aren't unreasonably paranoid about data misuse Is this a joke? Google is an ad company. And if I look at the US, I think there are periphery problems here. What really improves the situation in the medical field are large databases of indication…

GCP is not an ad company

Neither are Chrome or Android (or all of the other Google products that were once silo'd from each other through privacy agreements and could have been monetized in other ways)

Now they all do their best to feed your data straight into Google, while other similar products do their best to protect it. How long until GCP says 'let's pool all of our data for machine learning' or 'centralize your network traffic for security analysis' and 'We've updated our privacy policy, please leave immediately if you don't agree to the updates'

Re: Epic Tells Customers It Will Stop Google Cloud Integrations

#166

Post by fauigerzigerk »

leoh wrote: post #140

Google is absolutely doing the right thing. Anything that can be done to enhance the efficacy of EMR software will help lead to better patient outcomes. As far as I can tell, Google is approaching the problem foremost from the perspective of "how can we make people healthier by making software more effective." Epic and Cerner are simply not doing that. Somewhere in the comments here someone mentioned that most EMR so…

The problem is that Google has the most obvious conflict of interest of all cloud and AI providers when it comes to data use.

Many people simply don't believe anything Google says, and even those who do believe them to some degree know that others won't.

Google has become a reputational hazard in fields that deal with sensitive data such as healthcare.

Some decisions made by current management don't help at all. Instead of separating the advertising business from other activities like cloud and AI, they are moving in the exact opposite direction.

Why? I find this entirely baffling.

Re: Epic Tells Customers It Will Stop Google Cloud Integrations

#167

Post by tallanvor »

deanCommie wrote: post #66
briffle wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially when Amazon is making moves into insurance and pharmacy spaces

The difference is Amazon won't use confidential AWS data to drive their other verticals. Google's very business model is selling their users to their customers.

Google doesn't use data stored in GCP for their own purposes any more than Amazon uses data in AWS or Microsoft uses data in Azure.

That said, it's completely understandable that companies don't want to help fund competitors. --Walmart knows that they could use AWS without having any real fear of Amazon employees looking at their data to get a competitive advantage, but they chose Azure because Microsoft is not a direct competitor.

Likewise, companies providing healthcare software look at what Google is doing in that space and they don't want to fund the competition by using GCP.

These are rational decisions that we would expect companies to make. It's actually more surprising that, for example, Netflix still uses AWS given the fact that Amazon is a direct competitor in the streaming business. --GCP or Azure would make more sense here unless Amazon is giving them a really good deal to keep their business.

Re: Epic Tells Customers It Will Stop Google Cloud Integrations

#168

Post by kakoni »

avocado4 wrote: post #104
neandrake wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There might be some fear of competition. Google is offering healthcare solutions some of which seem to be angled at "owning" the healthcare data. I'm only vaguely familiar with Epic's offerings but a lot of these solutions that Google offers seem to encroach in that territory: https://cloud.google.com/solutions/healthcare-life-sciences/ https://cloud.google.com/solutions/modernize-legacy-apps/ https://cloud.google.co…

Google is now building an EHR as direct competition to Epic. It's definitely related to this move. Fwiw I welcome Google's entrance to this market because Epic's EHR and business practices are equally aweful.

Google's EHR, are you referring to this youtube video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3SYqcPXqNk

Because it (atleast the demo) looks like readonly-data aggregation application (that has somesort note functionality that is not directly linked to actual ehr data)

Re: Epic Tells Customers It Will Stop Google Cloud Integrations

#169

Post by raxxorrax »

achow wrote: post #163
raxxorrax wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The income of the owning company comes to 85% from advertising. It is pretty save to say that they are an ad company. It is also very likely that any data collected is used to reinforce and consolidate their main business.

I highly doubt this. A company of that size with separate P&L division (ex. GCP), operate like collection of mini companies. Executive of one 'mini company' is free to take their own decision which is good for their division and their OKR.

I doubt that the data flow will be contained within these "mini companies". Formally they are the same company and even with the inefficiency of large corps, I doubt that Google doesn't have the capabilities to efficiently exchange information.

That aside, I do not want to rely on the inefficiency of internal processes for data protection.

Re: Epic Tells Customers It Will Stop Google Cloud Integrations

#170

Post by kakoni »

neuro_image3 wrote: post #46
1290cc wrote: post #22

Google is doing the right thing. EPIC is a perfect example of the walled garden ecosystem that extracts every last drop from its clients and keeps anyone trying to innovate out. Healthcare tech could use the competition to drive down costs related to medical record management and exchange.

Absolutely. | Also EPIC is spectacularly unfit for purpose. Total garbage software that essentially functions as a billing tool.

Don't tell Europeans/Scandinavians about that. In Finland there is now massive Epic rollout in the capital region (costwise it looks like $1bn or more) and most likely also huge installation coming up In Central Finland (Its either Epic or Cerner).

Samething in Norway, central Norweigian health district chose epic.

Oh and almost forgot capital area in Denmark. Huge epic installation.

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