Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book

#31

Post by kingkilr » Sat, Feb 12, 2011, 4:49 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #26

Of course this is legal or Apple wouldn't be doing it. But it strikes me as an unnatural state of affairs. This idea that I can make a computational device, then own the right for you to put material on that device , is technically correct -- if you think of the iPad as some huge proprietary version of a CD player. But if you think of it an extension of your brain -- as a prosthesis which helps you share commonly und…

The way you're describing this extension of the brain reminds me a lot of Andy Clark's onion model for th extended mind.

Re: Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book

#32

Post by jonknee » Sat, Feb 12, 2011, 4:50 PM UTC

zdw wrote: post #16

bryanlarsen wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" I don't see the problem with Amazon and others kicking their users out to Safari to do purchases" At least as far as I can tell from this article and others, this is one of the things that Apple wants to disallow. At least there must also be an option to buy using the Apple system, giving Apple a 30% cut. And I highly doubt that Apple's going to allow an app that says "click here to buy through Apple, click here to…

That would be the core issue - I'm not sure Apple would even allow a "Buy Books" button that jumps to their website from within the Kindle app. At most, maybe a "Visit Amazon Website" button that goes to the home page, then after Apple approves the app have their site detect iPad users linked from the app, jump them directly to the Kindle bookstore. That's the best end-run I could come up with.

Kindle books are purchased through a WebKit view of Amazon.com in the iPad app now. That's what Apple is saying can't continue and that there needs to be In App Purchasing support. While it has been implied, I haven't heard specifically that they require the pricing to be the same (so you can't charge more for In App purchases to cover the 30% Apple VAT).

Re: Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book

#33

Post by tybris » Sat, Feb 12, 2011, 4:52 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #26

Of course this is legal or Apple wouldn't be doing it. But it strikes me as an unnatural state of affairs. This idea that I can make a computational device, then own the right for you to put material on that device , is technically correct -- if you think of the iPad as some huge proprietary version of a CD player. But if you think of it an extension of your brain -- as a prosthesis which helps you share commonly und…

> Of course this is legal or Apple wouldn't be doing it.

Right, because corporations never do anything illegal in any country.

Microsoft has been fined hundreds of millions for including a browser with their OS (not even restricting other browsers). Something Apple and every other OS manufacturer does as well. The problem is, neither Microsoft, nor Apple cares about fines of that scale.

Re: Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book

#34

Post by DanielBMarkham » Sat, Feb 12, 2011, 4:56 PM UTC

tybris wrote: post #33

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #26

Of course this is legal or Apple wouldn't be doing it. But it strikes me as an unnatural state of affairs. This idea that I can make a computational device, then own the right for you to put material on that device , is technically correct -- if you think of the iPad as some huge proprietary version of a CD player. But if you think of it an extension of your brain -- as a prosthesis which helps you share commonly und…

> Of course this is legal or Apple wouldn't be doing it. Right, because corporations never do anything illegal in any country. Microsoft has been fined hundreds of millions for including a browser with their OS (not even restricting other browsers). Something Apple and every other OS manufacturer does as well. The problem is, neither Microsoft, nor Apple cares about fines of that scale.

My point was that I have no wish to argue what the current status of the law is, not that corporations do no evil.

I am not a lawyer.

Re: Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book

#35

Post by pnathan » Sat, Feb 12, 2011, 4:58 PM UTC

I'm wondering if the OS X Lion edition is going to have these encumbrances as well.

Re: Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book

#36

Post by ptomato » Sat, Feb 12, 2011, 4:59 PM UTC

The discussion here at least seems to ignore one thing: 30% will not happen because that would mean Amazon would make -no- profit and still incur expenses. The agency model under which the vast majority of Amazon's ebook sales are done has a requirement from the publisher's that they get 70% of the sale price, regardless of what said sale price is. If Amazon jacks up the price for iOS sales, then they get 70% of that, and Apple gets the other 30%. Not going to happen. Personally, I'd bet on Apple announcing sometime in the near future a drastically reduced cut for in-app content purchases, more like a payment processor's cut, I.E. 5% or less.

Re: Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book

#37

Post by gst » Sat, Feb 12, 2011, 5:00 PM UTC

Maybe it's time for an HTML5 based Kindle app. From a customer point of view I wouldn't care as long as the functionality is the same.

However, a main issue with this would be the limit space available via HTML5 databases on the ipad - afaik something like 25 megabytes.

Re: Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book

#38

Post by bryanlarsen » Sat, Feb 12, 2011, 5:00 PM UTC

zdw wrote: post #27

drp wrote: post #4

What if Apple started demanding 30% of all sales transacted on every device they produce? What makes an iPhone so different from a MacBook?

I'm tempted to call the 30% the AppleVAT at this point... What makes iOS purchases different are two things: 1. Apple has oversight of content being sold (helps avoid malicious software in many cases, and age appropriate content). 2. Ease of use - one password to buy stuff, not multiple accounts everywhere. That's what you get as a customer. As a developer, you don't have to deal with the payment processing and other…

"There's nothing to stop an end-run around any of this"

I thought the whole point of this outrage was that Apple was trying to stop the end-run. This step isn't a complete blockage, but they're certainly trying to make it harder for customers to get content from outside and easier to get it through Apple's paywall.

Re: Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book

#39

Post by tybris » Sat, Feb 12, 2011, 5:01 PM UTC

kmfrk wrote: post #19

So, what do HN recommend that Amazon do now? Or at least expect them to do. * Leave the app as-is. (With what specific motive?) * Jack up the prices. (Perhaps they'll include a notification when the user is on the relevant purchase page.) * Leave the prices as-is and take the 30% hit. * Let Apple kill the app.

Stop selling books through iPhone and give Kindle app users a free kindle.

Re: Apple sets deadline for Amazon's Kindle app to change - They want 30% per book

#40

Post by fredoliveira » Sat, Feb 12, 2011, 5:04 PM UTC

This article is incorrect, as far as I am aware.

Apple has implemented a policy where by everyone who sells something through their app needs to provide the same set of products and services through In-app purchases. That means that the kindle app can maintain their current store but must also implement an in-app purchase alternative, powered by apple, and thus with Apple's 30% tax applied to it.