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Pharo 8.0

pharo.org

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Re: Pharo 8.0

#61

Post by nundah »

Zenchess wrote: post #39
zerr wrote: post #2

Pharo always looks cute, but does anyone here use it, even for toy stuff?

I always use smalltalk when the problem would allow for it since I'm much more productive in smalltalk than anything else. It's great for certain random tasks - i.e. Want to set up a websocket server for some reason? Program it in smalltalk, test it interactively (literally debugging on execution errors, fixing and resuming execution until it works). If I'm writing a native windows app I'll go with dolphin smalltalk…

Dolphin Smalltalk. Such an underrated tool. Productivity + Windows-native gui. Nothing else like it. The Pharo Spec/2 pales in comparison.

Re: Pharo 8.0

#62

Post by ethagnawl »

armagon wrote: post #48
protomyth wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, it still amazes me how a lot of the criticisms of Smalltalk have been become the new, cool solution. Smalltalk on Electron would be an interesting answer.

That'd be funny. I'm sure you could do it with https://www.amber-lang.net/ ;-)

I have a short anecdote about Amber, which may or may not be widely known.

Amber.js was the original name of Ember.js (so named after the style of beer one of its creators was drinking when they were searching for a name; if memory serves it was also the result of pulling bits and pieces out of SproutCore.js). When it came time to release the project, the authors of A/Ember were notified that they were encroaching on the name of a pre-existing project and changed it.

Re: Pharo 8.0

#63

Post by saijanai »

fooblitzky wrote: post #21
zerr wrote: post #2

Pharo always looks cute, but does anyone here use it, even for toy stuff?

I use it, mostly for toy stuff (work is 80% Java). Once you get used to it, Smalltalk is really the most amazing development environment. It's hard to describe how it feels to work with live objects - it's an incredible speed boost, because instead of grepping logs or stepping through code, you just interact with the objects directly, you can examine the state of instance variables, add new methods, or change code wh…

>There's a great video floating around somewhere of someone debugging an Asteroids game while the game is running.

That would be this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2rD2YSTMV4&list=PL62E3E45E6...

Re: Pharo 8.0

#64

Post by hliyan »

Five clicks through from the home page and I still can't seem to find a "Getting started" / "Hello World" example.

Re: Pharo 8.0

#65

Post by analognoise »

hliyan wrote: post #64

Five clicks through from the home page and I still can't seem to find a "Getting started" / "Hello World" example.

Pharo's documentation includes 5 FULL BOOKS (http://books.pharo.org/) that are open source and free, an ENTIRE MOOC supported by INRIA (which cost ~155k Euro), a world class computer research national lab that is massive in scale and supports some of the finest research in the field.

I'm sorry they didn't get to HELLO WORLD in less than 5 clicks though, they must really not care! Glad you took the time to really look for HELLO WORLD in those 5 clicks.

Who says Silicon Valley can't solve hard problems?

Re: Pharo 8.0

#66

Post by AtlasBarfed »

Great. Super. Has it been ported to a "real" VM yet? I'm going off of Wikipedia and the 16-bit windows error below.

I can see that the "radical: always-debug, always-on might need a real VM, but it's apparent there isn't enough base for this to produce a true VM.

Is it really impossible to port to the JVM, the javascript VMs, or something similar? Otherwise I fear this is doomed to toy status.

Re: Pharo 8.0

#67

Post by z3phyr »

hliyan wrote: post #64

Five clicks through from the home page and I still can't seem to find a "Getting started" / "Hello World" example.

Install it and try it. It might surprise you.

Re: Pharo 8.0

#68

Post by echelon »

shobith wrote: post #58
echelon wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once interviewed a candidate who decided to use Pharo to solve my technical problem. It was an absolute joy to see not only a good approach, but such an interesting and alien language employed to solve it. He got the job. :)

Was it an on-site interview? I’m curious how he was able to convince you to install the env.

Yeah, onsite. Remotes are harder in this respect.

We give onsite candidates affordances to install any environment that makes them feel comfortable, or to allow them to bring their own machines. The interview machines get wiped on a regular cadence, so installing packages is no big deal.

If candidates send us a list of the software they want beforehand, we usually try to set it up for them in advance. If not, it's fine for the schedule to run over a bit for them to tweak things as they like.

Interviews are stressful enough. We want everything working in a candidate's favor so they can do their best.

Re: Pharo 8.0

#69

Post by lucb1e »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #46
lucb1e wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This page ( http://pharo.org/news/pharo8.0-released ) is currently offline. However, because the site uses Cloudflare's Always Online™ technology you can continue to surf a snapshot of the site. Except that I see a big error page. Isn't CloudFlare supposed to help with this? The message on top seems to indicate that, but when I (back in the day) tested with CF on my domain it just proxied every request and failed w…

Who runs the Pharo site? Let's try to diagnose and help them. I don't actually believe in the hackers news hug of death, since many sites survive it just fine (because they take "static content" as seriously as one needs to in order to do so). I see that pharo.org has a "login" link at the bottom. Could the homepage be doing an auth cookie DB lookup on each pageview?

I don't have much static content, no cdn, do multiple database queries per request, my server isn't beefy enough to run any of the common content managers like WordPress or typo3 (well, each pageload took a very long time), and yet it survived the HN homepage on a few occasions.

A huge system like WordPress can't do dynamic content for more than a small number of visitors per second no matter how beefy the server and has to hackily convert content from dynamic to static content. Which is fine since it uses a lot less power to do static content instead of buying beefier and beefier servers, but it is not how WordPress meant its blogging software to have to be (maybe they gave up by now and do static rendering by default, but it used to be all plugin based). By writing my own tiny blogging software I implemented what I needed and it worked just fine on an Intel Atom CPU, even on the HN homepage.

Re: Pharo 8.0

#70

Post by _pmf_ »

echelon wrote: post #24
zerr wrote: post #2

Pharo always looks cute, but does anyone here use it, even for toy stuff?

I once interviewed a candidate who decided to use Pharo to solve my technical problem. It was an absolute joy to see not only a good approach, but such an interesting and alien language employed to solve it. He got the job. :)

> He got the job.

I hope he's now writing CRUD apps in J2EE.

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