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The Internet of Beefs

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Re: The Internet of Beefs

#171

Post by coldtea »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #91
Lammy wrote: post #12

This article resonates with me and my experiences online to a startling degree. Specifically: “We are not beefing endlessly because we do not desire peace or because we do not know how to engineer peace. We are beefing because we no longer know who we are, each of us individually, and collectively as a species.” I think we are seeing a genuine lack of strong family, social, and organizational ties among most people,…

Trust is earned. It's not something you can assume. That "assumption of trust" you speak of included an assumption that either you weren't LGBT or you would bury it your entire life for the comfort of the larger community. Matthew 10:34-36 34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against…

>If the world is seeing a loss of identity, it is because we are being freed from the shackles of our old identity. It's normal for there to be a transition period where no one knows what's what.

The only problem is that there were other times of such "freedom from the shackles of our old identity" and they didn't end well -- even if centuries later things picked up.

The late Greek city states, the late Roman empire for one, modern Britain and France (second rate global players, politically and culturally, where they used to be first), and so on... US is close...

Re: The Internet of Beefs

#172

Post by Androider »

nostromo wrote: post #3

At some point people will realize that Twitter doesn't matter. The sooner that happens the better. For whatever reason, our elites and media are convinced Twitter is very important . Nothing is worse than getting criticized by the peanut gallery. Twitter can end careers, cancel television shows, bring down elected officials. That power quickly turned from, "complain about lost baggage on Twitter and get an airline ti…

That goes for a lot of other media as well. Fox News has on average 2.5M viewers. In a country of 327 million (never mind the world), you can round that 0.7% viewership down and say that in practice nobody is watching Fox News. There are more daily viewers on Twitch than that, and far more viewers in total.

Re: The Internet of Beefs

#173

Post by dasil003 »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #167

Undoubtedly, some of what this article describes, routinely takes place on twitter. However, I find that something else takes place on twitter much more, or at least as frequently. It goes something like this: 1) Something somewhere happens. 2) A person who may be famous or well know for some accomplishments, perhaps even super impressive accomplishments in a particular field of business or creative endevours, decide…

I don't particularly care about someone's feelings being hurt on the internet. The problem with Twitter and most social media is that they have lowered the effort to interact as low as possible in the pursuit of engagement. The result is a system in which any kind of intelligent discourse tends to be drowned out by a torrent of tribally approved virtue signals. These platforms are dominated by the need to respond quickly in order to generate another dopamine hit, and actively work against deep thinking.

Re: The Internet of Beefs

#174

Post by vasilipupkin »

dasil003 wrote: post #173
vasilipupkin wrote: post #167

Undoubtedly, some of what this article describes, routinely takes place on twitter. However, I find that something else takes place on twitter much more, or at least as frequently. It goes something like this: 1) Something somewhere happens. 2) A person who may be famous or well know for some accomplishments, perhaps even super impressive accomplishments in a particular field of business or creative endevours, decide…

I don't particularly care about someone's feelings being hurt on the internet. The problem with Twitter and most social media is that they have lowered the effort to interact as low as possible in the pursuit of engagement. The result is a system in which any kind of intelligent discourse tends to be drowned out by a torrent of tribally approved virtue signals. These platforms are dominated by the need to respond qui…

Twitter is a firehose of information. In order to have a good experience on Twitter, you have to curate who you follow so that you don't see things you don't care about. Once I have done that, I see plenty of extremely intelligent discourse on Twitter, from humor to book recommendations to deep tech discussions to intelligent/sophisticated political takes, to analysis on startups, etc. So, no, I would have to disagree with you.

Re: The Internet of Beefs

#175

Post by nvahalik »

pixl97 wrote: post #161
dcolkitt wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is it's not just religion. There's been a commensurate, if not larger, decline in participation in "civic organizations" as well. Sports leagues, fraternal societies (like the Elks or Masons), parent-teach organizations, volunteer organizations (like the Boy Scouts or Red Cross), and labor unions have all seen their memberships steadily decline for the better part of the last 50 years.[1] Doubly so among th…

Our social connections have been replaced with commercial ones. Where at one point we socialized to relieve boredom and need, now we have never ending entertainment and those that would capitalize on selling it to us over everything else.

I want to upvote this 10x.

Re: The Internet of Beefs

#176

Post by coldtea »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #163
virtuous_signal wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This struck me as too tidy, so in the spirit of debate let me offer a little pushback: >We are seeing such things dissolve because we have other options these days. 1) Do we have other options? I think we do, but I don't think the saturation is nearly as high as churchgoing or temple-attending was throughout history. >In the past, people often grudgingly tolerated it because they had no place to go, not because being…

It's a comment on a forum, not a PhD thesis. There are other ways to attend gatherings of people now. You and I are attending one of them right this minute: a forum on the internet. For my purposes, talking with people on HN is generally superior to most meatspace options. I have a compromised immune system. No one is going to cough on me on HN. I'm a woman. This is an overwhelmingly male space. No one here can physi…

>I'm a woman. This is an overwhelmingly male space. No one here can physically assault me the way they could in meatspace.

And yet women managed to exist in outside society and participate in all kinds of actions in the 60s and 70s for example (including protests, acid tests, trips to India, and all kinds of stuff), under much worse conditions (re: average societal sexism, etc), without all today's drama.

It's like how in general violent crime is at an all time low, but people are more scared and panicked about it than in past 20th century decades (when it was 2x-3x as much).

Re: The Internet of Beefs

#177

Post by pgsbathhouse »

Lammy wrote: post #55
kick wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What rapid changes have we seen lately? The change in that person's comment has been in the making for over a hundred years. The first thing I personally can think of (in the context of America, as one of the last Western countries to accept GLBT people, not in the context of the wider world, which has been accepting for much longer than America) is American GLBT communes in the 1780s. Given where we are in GLBT acce…

I think the gutting of middle America is a big part of it. The most talented people are forced to leave for the coasts to make the most of their capabilities. This hurts both the leavers (like me) who have to built roots from scratch in their new home and hurts the remaining population due to the resulting brain drain. The us-versus-them attitude is then worsened by classist attitudes toward those entire areas based…

> think the gutting of middle America is a big part of it

Middle america is _the_ thing that is causing most of our social and economic problems.

Re: The Internet of Beefs

#178

Post by uncle_j »

virtuous_signal wrote: post #19
Lammy wrote: post #12

This article resonates with me and my experiences online to a startling degree. Specifically: “We are not beefing endlessly because we do not desire peace or because we do not know how to engineer peace. We are beefing because we no longer know who we are, each of us individually, and collectively as a species.” I think we are seeing a genuine lack of strong family, social, and organizational ties among most people,…

This is spot on. I wonder if this exodus has resulted in people trying to make workplaces their "religious community"; but obviously people who happen to be at the same company don't have any reason to agree on important issues. So then the mission becomes trying to make everyone at work care about and agree on .

People replace God with something else I have noticed. Many of the Atheists in the Atheists community in the United States started a new organisation called Atheism+, which alienated a lot of group and those in Atheism+ started added a lot of dogma, which I find as someone who observed the split from the outside in the UK to be somewhat ironic.

I am not religious myself (but I am slowly having a greater appreciation of religion as I get older).

Re: The Internet of Beefs

#179

Post by DoreenMichele »

coldtea wrote: post #176
DoreenMichele wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a comment on a forum, not a PhD thesis. There are other ways to attend gatherings of people now. You and I are attending one of them right this minute: a forum on the internet. For my purposes, talking with people on HN is generally superior to most meatspace options. I have a compromised immune system. No one is going to cough on me on HN. I'm a woman. This is an overwhelmingly male space. No one here can physi…

> I'm a woman. This is an overwhelmingly male space. No one here can physically assault me the way they could in meatspace. And yet women managed to exist in outside society and participate in all kinds of actions in the 60s and 70s for example (including protests, acid tests, trips to India, and all kinds of stuff), under much worse conditions (re: average societal sexism, etc), without all today's drama. It's like…

The many articles I've seen in recent years related to the #MeToo movement and similar suggest to me that women are pretty routinely sexually assaulted for simply attending a rather wide variety of events, including simply having a job. (Keep in mind that doesn't mean raped -- it includes more minor offenses, like being felt up.)

I was sexually assaulted as a child. I don't think I have been as an adult. I like keeping it that way.

There are things I attend in meat space. I'm not a shut in. I just enjoy the fact that talking with people online about things that interest me simplifies certain elements for me.

I might feel differently if I could find better intellectual engagement in meat space than online. If the entire internet were vapid memes, I might be all "Book club here I come!" (or whatever)

But I get more of what I really want here with less potential downside. It's a win-win in my book.

Re: The Internet of Beefs

#180

Post by NotSammyHagar »

nvahalik wrote: post #175
pixl97 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our social connections have been replaced with commercial ones. Where at one point we socialized to relieve boredom and need, now we have never ending entertainment and those that would capitalize on selling it to us over everything else.

I want to upvote this 10x.

Every generation would always talk about the destructive increase in entertainment in their time. My grandfather said his parents told him he listened to the radio too much when he was a kid.
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