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The Internet of Beefs

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Re: The Internet of Beefs

#111

Post by 4thwaywastrel »

chadcmulligan wrote: post #93

Is it though? or is it the disenfranchised finally are able to have their opinion heard? We also get to see the emperors now and we realise they have no clothes - they're just like us. My hope is this is a brief period of education of everyone to see each others opinions and something better can come of it. As always there are those at work trying to maintain their positions. For myself I have learnt a lot about the…

I don't think the posted conception of the culture war as a "holding pattern of conflict" is incompatible with the idea that it's also a legitimate outpouring of the voice of the disenfranchised.

Some might say that we've become stuck in that outpouring, and enamoured with conflict rather than any kind of coherent vision for how to be.

Re: The Internet of Beefs

#112

Post by ggm »

I often ask myself why Facebook, Twitter and Instagram say "follow" instead of link or associate.

People who seek followers give me cause for concern.

Re: The Internet of Beefs

#113

Post by rriepe »

watwut wrote: post #95
Lammy wrote: post #12

This article resonates with me and my experiences online to a startling degree. Specifically: “We are not beefing endlessly because we do not desire peace or because we do not know how to engineer peace. We are beefing because we no longer know who we are, each of us individually, and collectively as a species.” I think we are seeing a genuine lack of strong family, social, and organizational ties among most people,…

People like you who did not created ties to a group like that are quite better and less scary then people who have strong loyal unquestioning ties to groups - whether nationalist, traditionalist or radical Christians (some of Catholics in my country lately tie themselves to extremists). Membership and trust in these apparently feels great. That feeling is dangerous. That trust is not build on truths being told, it is…

Everyone is the same amount of religious in my experience. The people who join an established religion gain the quality of being predictable.

Re: The Internet of Beefs

#114

Post by samatman »

Venkat is enjoyable as always, but the central conceit of this essay is an insult to crash-only programming.

The crash-only approach to feuding online is to stop responding when someone beefs with you. Don't try to mollify, don't flame back, don't explain yourself, just: close the tab, do something else, and reboot Twitter later, in a known-good state.

Re: The Internet of Beefs

#115

Post by maxander »

watwut wrote: post #95
Lammy wrote: post #12

This article resonates with me and my experiences online to a startling degree. Specifically: “We are not beefing endlessly because we do not desire peace or because we do not know how to engineer peace. We are beefing because we no longer know who we are, each of us individually, and collectively as a species.” I think we are seeing a genuine lack of strong family, social, and organizational ties among most people,…

People like you who did not created ties to a group like that are quite better and less scary then people who have strong loyal unquestioning ties to groups - whether nationalist, traditionalist or radical Christians (some of Catholics in my country lately tie themselves to extremists). Membership and trust in these apparently feels great. That feeling is dangerous. That trust is not build on truths being told, it is…

Strong social ties can exist without an overarching authority, or even without any sort of authoritative structure at all- I think the best thing to look at in this regard are modern subcultures (punks, hipsters, hippies, goths, burners, etc) particularly as they exist in decently-sized cities. A bunch of like-minded and like-lifestyled people with an excuse to get together; that’s at least 90% of what the old conservative/religious structures offered.

Re: The Internet of Beefs

#116

Post by fipar »

spappletrap wrote: post #44
virtuous_signal wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is spot on. I wonder if this exodus has resulted in people trying to make workplaces their "religious community"; but obviously people who happen to be at the same company don't have any reason to agree on important issues. So then the mission becomes trying to make everyone at work care about and agree on .

It's almost like our social bonds are being broken in the same way chemical bonds get broken when we digest food. Like our capitalist society is a higher-order organism that is extracting energy from our societal bonds.

I think that’s spot on and relates with what I understood after reading Pirsig’s “Lila: An inquiry into morals”, where he talks about inorganic, biological, social, and intellectual patterns, when introducing his Metaphysics of Quality[1]. Capitalism would be a social pattern that is made of us, as we’re made of our cells. And just the same, what’s best for the organism as a whole does not have to be the best for a specific individual cell.

[1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirsig%27s_Metaphysics_of_Qu...

Re: The Internet of Beefs

#117

Post by aristophenes »

nostromo wrote: post #3

At some point people will realize that Twitter doesn't matter. The sooner that happens the better. For whatever reason, our elites and media are convinced Twitter is very important . Nothing is worse than getting criticized by the peanut gallery. Twitter can end careers, cancel television shows, bring down elected officials. That power quickly turned from, "complain about lost baggage on Twitter and get an airline ti…

Twitter is amazing. I didn't get into it until a couple years ago, I was missing so much. Many of the most influential, intelligent, thoughtful people post what they think or are interested in. In the past, unless they were a journalist, you'd have to wait for someone to write a book, and then buy it. Now you can pick and choose from the most amazing people of the world, and actually interact with them.

I kind of can't get over that this is free and such a high percentage of the people I want to know about are on it, and I worry that it is a temporary situation before everyone gets so afraid of possible negative consequences that they stop sharing. I think it is an added bonus that important people get used to dealing with criticism, as that leads to freer society.

It's up to you to pick the right people to listen to and not get engaged in foolish flame wars. The information I've gleaned from the conversations I've seen and participated in on Twitter over the last two years have saved me a decade or two of my own personal work.

Re: The Internet of Beefs

#118

Post by cyorir »

derp_dee_derp wrote: post #58
sebastos wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read this article a few days ago and said almost exactly the same thing. The mook stuff is fun, but the line you quoted: >“We are not beefing endlessly because we do not desire peace or because we do not know how to engineer peace. We are beefing because we no longer know who we are, each of us individually, and collectively as a species.” is the important part of the piece for me, and I'm happy to see you and othe…

> In 2016, I flew home to PA from Boston specifically to vote against Trump in a place that mattered this is illegal if your residence is Boston. Congratulations, you committed a felony.

The "if" is key. The parent post does not indicate that their voting residence is in Massachusetts - they could have maintained a voting residence in Pennsylvania instead of switching to MA.

Voting residency requirements are weird because they differ from state to state, and can be very vague when it comes to maintaining residency. As far as I can tell, Pennsylvania's 30-day residence requirement only applies when registering to vote; as long as you maintain a voting residence in Pennsylvania, you can vote in subsequent elections as you do not need to register again between elections. According to Article VII of Pennsylvania's election code (qualifications of electors), however, you lose your residence if you move to another state AND do not intend to return to Pennsylvania OR you move to another state AND intend to make it your permanent residence. So it depends on the parent poster's intentions of whether they view MA as their permanent residence or they don't plan to return to PA.

Re: The Internet of Beefs

#119

Post by livueta »

mrspeaker wrote: post #86
humanrebar wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all Because pleasantness isn't a virtue in every context? Some unpleasant things need to be done and said sometimes. In fact, saying no in certain contexts is good , though it can often be unpleasant. That being said, some people find it pleasant to be unpleasant. Certainly self-censor if you sense that urge arising. Getting drunk on anger or righteousness isn'…

Unpleasant things very rarely need to be done or said, but people (me included) are addicted to doing and saying them. We all feel the need to desperately type the first thing that pops into our head (like the sentence I just typed, and I'd argue the reply you gave). If I wasn't allowed to reply to your response for, say, 24 hours - then I might write something useful and interesting. But the internet of beefs doesn'…

IME removing yourself from the original emotional context of your post works wonders. Write the whole thing, sure, but then go do a context switch - go for a walk, read a different article, make some food, whatever - then once that emotional immediacy fades (which can definitely take different amounts of distracting depending on how pissed you are), read the comment out loud to yourself. Probably 90% of the time I've written something shouty I'll just end up closing the tab.

YMMV, of course, though I found the first couple of experiences of feeling like "wow, what kind of ape would draft a comment like that?" when I go for the reread were enough to emotionally incentivize me to trade time for not feeling like a big rube down the line.

Re: The Internet of Beefs

#120

Post by Swizec »

tomc1985 wrote: post #79
jszymborski wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for crystallising this succinctly. The loss of cultural meeting places, be they churches, or arcades, or malls, is something I consider a huge loss as well. The pendulum might swing the other way yet, however. If we can reinvest in our community centers and hacker spaces and make them part of the zeitgeist, we might all be rehumanize a bit.

There are many communities out there for people to join and find their tribe, they just aren't easily accessible or indexed centrally. A lot of them filter for like-minded folks -- even the ones that claim to accept anyone. Focusing on community or hacker spaces is narrow view of one's options. I found mine via attending underground music events, then joining one of the groups and attending festivals with them, which…

> I found mine via attending underground music events

To find like-minded folks to do things you love with, do the things you love.

Problem is most of the things I love involve isolating myself from others and seeking solitude in my own projects. After work and partner, there’s just no more social battery left.

When I tried 4-day-at-office weeks for a few months I literally became chattier with people at the gym, strangers in the park, etc. it was quite extraordinary

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