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Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never happen'

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Re: Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never happen'

#801

Post by sib »

_red wrote: post #430
lsc wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like it would mostly be the manufacturers that would have to insure the cars, at least for the expensive part (liability) For me? I'm a self-driving skeptic, but... if the manufacturer was willing to properly insure it, (I mean, a reasonable amount of insurance, at least a statistical life worth) I'd ride in the thing. I think that's an honest signal.

>... if the manufacturer was willing to properly insure it, Its not just the manufacturers, who is underwriting all that insurance? Ford sells approximately 2.3M vehicles per year, imagine if 50% of self-driving...over a 5 year period that 5.5M cars...if each one needs to carry a potential 1M policy thats an incredible amount of liability on someone's balance sheet. (even if you say the policy is only 100K thats stil…

But all of those cars are insured (and that insurance is underwritten) today. So the liability already lives on the balance sheet of insurance companies. Maybe the specific companies change...

Re: Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never happen'

#802

Post by acolumb »

I do think that full self-driving cars will exist (meaning that you can put in the GPS coordinates of a location and it will drive itself there.)

What won't happen is cars without the ability to have a human take over. There are too many fringe cases to allow cars without steering wheels.

Re: Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never happen'

#803

Post by toasterlovin »

darkerside wrote: post #769
toasterlovin wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least the software is fixable. Other humans are not.

Humans are fixable in that they are held accountable. One person can be taken off the road if they are unfit to drive. (Revoke license, imprison, etc). Then the incident has become Someone's Fault, and society can move on.

I’d personally rather have less death and mayhem than be able to blame someone for it...

Re: Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never happen'

#804

Post by rossmohax »

TwoBit wrote: post #573
aetherson wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you destroy a yield sign, maybe it will eventually cause some problems, or maybe not. We could imagine a world in which destroying smart infrastructure could pretty instantaneously and reliably cause massive traffic jams, which seems like it would appeal more to certain trolls and perhaps protestors. We could also imagine a world in which more subtle attacks could reliably and fairly quickly cause injury/fatality…

If you destroy a yield sign, the system will immediately know because all the cars previously recorded it.

If there is a central database with all the signs, you don't need a physical sign on the edge on the road for AV to notice it, they already know it is "there" from that DB

Re: Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never happen'

#805

Post by gambiting »

rossmohax wrote: post #804
TwoBit wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you destroy a yield sign, the system will immediately know because all the cars previously recorded it.

If there is a central database with all the signs, you don't need a physical sign on the edge on the road for AV to notice it, they already know it is "there" from that DB

Bear in mind that's not how the traffic law works anywhere right now. You are only required to obey signs and markings which are actually there. And traffic signs get removed all the time for works, I honestly can't imagine that every action like that would be recorded in some central database that all cars could query.

Re: Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never happen'

#806

Post by [deleted] »

Booktrope wrote: post #111

Or perhaps, VW exec hopes full self-driving cars may never happen, because it would imply a fleet approach where transportation would be a service instead of cars being a prized possession. That, of course, would mean far less cars. So don't expect a traditional car manufacturer to lead the way. This is incidentally one reason for Tesla's huge market value. The company actually has a plan to transition from individua…

[deleted]

Re: Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never happen'

#807

Post by oiasdjfoiasd »

krawakoliz wrote: post #334
Booktrope wrote: post #111

Or perhaps, VW exec hopes full self-driving cars may never happen, because it would imply a fleet approach where transportation would be a service instead of cars being a prized possession. That, of course, would mean far less cars. So don't expect a traditional car manufacturer to lead the way. This is incidentally one reason for Tesla's huge market value. The company actually has a plan to transition from individua…

> O r perhaps, VW exec hopes full self-driving cars may never happen, because it would imply a fleet approach where transportation would be a service instead of cars being a prized possession. Why on earth would anyone use this over public transit? That would be a hugely expensive way to travel.

a lot of people have already switched over to uber from public transportation...

Re: Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never happen'

#808

Post by wozniacki »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #784
the-pigeon wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hackers could hijack a missile and kill a lot of people too. This is why we have security. And honestly modern cars are so computerized already I think your argument applies to them as much as autonomous cars.

I am sorry, what? Which missile system can be hacked and launched remotely? This is a ridiculous claim. Cars are already getting hacked. The whole point of the post is to highlight how car manufacturers have no concern or competence for security, is will be like the boeing scandal but much worse.

At best, youre conflating two vastly different things - Boeing engineers and car manufacturers.

At worst, youre a troll. Cars are no where being hacked at the scale or magnitude that affected the numbers involved in the Boeing fumble. No where near. Not even remotely close.

Re: Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never happen'

#809

Post by gambiting »

davewritescode wrote: post #787
TwoBit wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you destroy a yield sign, the system will immediately know because all the cars previously recorded it.

Ideally we get to a point where we’re at least publishing signage to a database so that cars don’t have to rely on visual cues both human and automated. I personally don’t think it’s possible to make automated cars work well without a ton of infrastructure support.

The law doesn't require you to follow a sign that's not there. In fact I'd argue that doing so can be dangerous in some situations(and obviously advised in others). A car should only ever follow what it can actually see, which makes the whole idea almost daft, since computer image recognition is still so poor.

Re: Volkswagen exec admits full self-driving cars 'may never happen'

#810

Post by gambiting »

j-c-hewitt wrote: post #788
cameronh90 wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's stopping people from destroying yield signs and other safety critical road infrastructure now? Sometimes common sense helps, but it you're out to cause chaos, there's a ton of things you can do today that would cause crashes - but most of the time, people don't.

Nothing and it happens all the time. This is something that a human driver familiar with the road will notice and it will be unlikely to cause an accident. An out-of-towner might get into an accident. An automated vehicle would ideally not even be looking at signs and just operating from its stored data.

That's an absolutely crazy idea. You are only required by law to follow signs that are actually there, full stop, a car should never rely on some built in database of data. I cannot imagine a database of signs that would be constantly up to date and somehow distributed to all cars on the road.
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