Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet • Hacker News Board

Re: Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet

#351

Post by jimktrains2 » Sun, Jan 19, 2020, 11:36 AM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #329

jimktrains2 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not entrapment. Entrapment is the state coercing someone to do something they would not do under normal circumstances. It sounds to me as if these people are illegally parking under normal circumstances. The rules about curbs, hydrants, driveways, &c are well known and common enough between every state that there is no excuse that they weren't aware this was illegal.

>That's not entrapment. It's still highly unethical, especially when your target population is supposedly already paying tens of thousands for use of the facilities.

Highly unethical to expect people to follow the law? We're not talking acts of civil disobedience against unjust laws, we're talking willful abuse of laws designed for public safety.

City streets are not the campus facilities, and what of the people using public transit or other means of transportation? Should they have to pay additional on their tens of thousands to subsidize those people with cars?

Re: Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet

#352

Post by boublepop » Sun, Jan 19, 2020, 11:40 AM UTC

hanniabu wrote: post #242

jlarocco wrote: post #203

Am I the only one who thinks this is wrong? An alternative headline could be something like, "Entitled College Kids Learn How To Keep Parking Like Assholes Without Paying Fines." And it's a pyrhic victory anyway, because chances are now the cars will get one of the metal tire boots put on, or get towed. Both of which are more expensive and a bigger hassle for everybody.

The issue I have is cases like at my school where they basically had entrapment. At the start of every year there'd be like 2-3 months where it's a free for all and students could park wherever. The certainty was nowhere near adequate parking and not everywhere that people parked was readily obvious to be illegal. Some spots had the yellow on the curb worn away 90%, others were things like too close to a corner or hy…

Not entrapment, just a case of administration trying to save costs by not dealing with the issue until it becomes too much and then cutting costs once it’s in control again.

The argument that it’s immoral to deal with people breaking the law because their used to getting away with it is absurd.

The sense of entitlement is absurd. If you park illegally you’ll get a fine, deal with it.

Re: Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet

#353

Post by boomersooner » Sun, Jan 19, 2020, 1:02 PM UTC

Scoundreller wrote: post #15

This is just a bunch of unverified reddit/Twitter reposts. I’m sure the defrost trick works in winter, but it won’t work as well in summer.

The animosity towards OU parking is real. When I was there 15 years ago, the big deal was that fines were cheaper than a pass, so why bother? Parking costs are crazy for a suburban school, and parking enforcement is used as a money maker. Last I checked, they were building buildings in parking lots without replacing those spaces.

Re: Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet

#354

Post by jessaustin » Sun, Jan 19, 2020, 1:40 PM UTC

analog31 wrote: post #331

jessaustin wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really depends on the college town. In East-Coast urban cores, most students won't be able to afford to park at any time. Everywhere else in USA, they have free parking where they stay, and also they're culturally conditioned to consider walking or biking to be beneath their station, so they'll consider free parking near their classes to be their birthright.

Which university? I've never been on a major college campus where it was even possible to park near the classroom buildings, much less practical. I live a few blocks from a Big Ten university in the Midwest. When classes are in session, the extensive rows of bike racks are stuffed full of bikes, to the point where illegal bike parking is actually a problem.

What I described is certainly the situation at e.g. Illinois, Indiana, and Nebraska, to name three "Big Ten" schools. I suppose I haven't done a complete survey, however. There are lots of other, smaller colleges where this is also true.

Re: Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet

#355

Post by angry_octet » Sun, Jan 19, 2020, 2:01 PM UTC

Y_Y wrote: post #346

angry_octet wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several points: - On the parking side, rich people can pay for parking. Some rich people don't and will get fines, which they can pay. Some poor people will risk getting a ticket so they can not spend that $4. (Someone will respond "just leave earlier and park further away" so let me premptively remind them thar poor people are often, e.g. single parents, working multiple jobs, etc, and don't have the luxury of leavi…

> Instead of the university administration focusing on priority areas, such as where parking would block exits, it becomes a profit source and they lose sight of what parking is for -- access by staff and students. This is a strong point, and has lots of modern parallels (e.g. "civil forfeiture", gatsos), especially to do with cars. The only thing I'd say is that it's a bit of a stretch to ask the tech to prevent the…

This parallels the encryption debate somewhat. Govt says 'we need a backdoor to your messaging system/phone to catch $criminal, trust our $system not to abuse it'.

Systems like Signal do not try to solve the problem of govt abuse. Instead, it constrains govts by making them find other ways to conduct surveillance, expanding the task of mass surveillance to one of creating implants for O(n) phones.

It's true that you can't prevent any University from seeking out dark tech patterns, but at least have them make that choice. The community can then have them accept responsibility for that.

Obviously legislation is needed to constrain rempant privacy violation, and we seem a long way off that, especially in the States and the UK. In the mean time, engineers should examine the ethical basis of their work, and consider how it effects their standing in society.

Re: Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet

#356

Post by angry_octet » Sun, Jan 19, 2020, 2:05 PM UTC

brewdad wrote: post #333

angry_octet wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Says the person who has always had enough money and has strong opinions about poverty.

If you can't afford the $4 for parking, you can't afford a car. The rules don't become optional because you can't afford them. Being poor sucks but it doesn't give anyone the right to ignore the law.

Wow, so parking for 130 minutes in a 120 minute spot is breaking the law now?

There was I thinking it's a contractual dispute.

Re: Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet

#357

Post by angry_octet » Sun, Jan 19, 2020, 2:15 PM UTC

megablast wrote: post #349

angry_octet wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car pooling is a big win. Universities should encourage it. Primary obstacle is probably perceptions of safety.

You know how you encourage it? High price on parking, and punishing abusers.

Victorian thought is not dead I see.

Well, instead you might incentiveise it through having car pool car parks that are closer to campus, or at least next to a well lit and preferably sheltered area. Then you could publicise the car pool scheme. You could even have a forum for finding other car poopers, and/or an app. Maybe allow people, with their consent, to be matched by approx origin/destination for easier finding.

If you had a computer science or math department then I'm sure they would have people who could solve the ride matching problem.

Re: Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet

#358

Post by DrJones1098 » Sun, Jan 19, 2020, 2:35 PM UTC

jimktrains2 wrote: post #277

hanniabu wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue I have is cases like at my school where they basically had entrapment. At the start of every year there'd be like 2-3 months where it's a free for all and students could park wherever. The certainty was nowhere near adequate parking and not everywhere that people parked was readily obvious to be illegal. Some spots had the yellow on the curb worn away 90%, others were things like too close to a corner or hy…

That's not entrapment. Entrapment is the state coercing someone to do something they would not do under normal circumstances. It sounds to me as if these people are illegally parking under normal circumstances. The rules about curbs, hydrants, driveways, &c are well known and common enough between every state that there is no excuse that they weren't aware this was illegal.

A trap is something easy to get into but hard to get out of.

They made the parking rules unclear and never enforced them then cracked down brutally.

Re: Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet

#359

Post by acdha » Sun, Jan 19, 2020, 3:29 PM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #330

notatoad wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what does low income have to do with this? driving is expensive . between fuel, vehicle maintenance, parking, and insurance, driving your personal vehicle should not be the "low income" choice. If there's truly no choice other than driving (which isn't really possible, because if driving alone is an option then so is carpooling), your income level has nothing to do with it. If there is a choice, then low income is no…

>what does low income have to do with this? driving is expensive. between fuel, vehicle maintenance, parking, and insurance, driving your personal vehicle should not be the "low income" choice. At the low end it is not really that expensive. Initial buy in is like $1500, $1k for the shitbox, $500 for the paperwork you need to legally operate it. Fuel isn't exactly cheap but it's not a lump sum so if you're poor you c…

You left out insurance, which is a big chunk of change, and all of the costs for when you don’t have a family mechanic who doesn’t charge by the hour and needs parts, not to mention the cost of towing, missed work, etc. when the cheap car breaks. Theft is still a concern unless you can afford safe parking, too - even a beater usually has parts worth something to a thief.

I’ve had cheap cars before and solidly subscribe to the Sam Vines boot theory: unless you can do all of your own maintenance, it’s more expensive long-term but the only option for someone who can’t swing the higher up-front costs. Around here (DC) this is often cited as a poverty factor in favor of better transit since these costs all add up and the many low-paying jobs require hours and/or locations which aren’t great for the limited transit options (e.g. if you work at a restaurant you leave around when the rail is shut down but the bus takes 90 minutes and driving means a ton of upfront costs plus $$$ parking).

Re: Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet

#360

Post by jtms » Sun, Jan 19, 2020, 3:47 PM UTC

Normally I would think “break the rules, pay the fines” but I am sympathetic in this case. When I was in college I had to put my bicycle in the back of my truck and park about two miles away from campus because there was literally never valid parking on campus and the school was doing next to nothing to fix the problem.