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How the internet helped crack the Astros' sign-stealing case

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Re: How the internet helped crack the Astros' sign-stealing case

#11

Post by remarkEon »

redis_mlc wrote: post #8
remarkEon wrote: post #6

I assume there are some baseball fans here on HN ... This is, in my opinion, a watershed moment here for how Baseball is going to deal with technology. After the Moneyball "revolution" lots of people, both in the game and casual fans, talked about how technology would again "revolutionize" the sport[0]. Things like player evaluations and injury prediction + prevention were what was mostly talked about (this was back…

> casts a shadow on the integrity of the game MLB. FIFA. OOC. ... let me know when you can see a difference, lol.

Well, the latter two seem institutionally corrupt in a way MLB is not - at least today.

Re: How the internet helped crack the Astros' sign-stealing case

#14

Post by wolco »

redis_mlc wrote: post #8
remarkEon wrote: post #6

I assume there are some baseball fans here on HN ... This is, in my opinion, a watershed moment here for how Baseball is going to deal with technology. After the Moneyball "revolution" lots of people, both in the game and casual fans, talked about how technology would again "revolutionize" the sport[0]. Things like player evaluations and injury prediction + prevention were what was mostly talked about (this was back…

> casts a shadow on the integrity of the game MLB. FIFA. OOC. ... let me know when you can see a difference, lol.

IOC

Re: How the internet helped crack the Astros' sign-stealing case

#15

Post by wolco »

remote_phone wrote: post #7

I’m waiting for machine learning to predict play calls for baseball and football. It shouldn’t be too hard if it hasn’t already been done. Based on the offensive coordinator and things like field position, etc it should be easy to make predictions as to what that human would make based on past choices. I wonder if that would be considered cheating though If they only used past performance and not real time signal ste…

No they use that now. They have stats for matchups vs where the ball will be hit, etc. Based on this the defensive will move. It has been working.

Re: How the internet helped crack the Astros' sign-stealing case

#16

Post by trimbo »

incompatible wrote: post #13

For the uninitiated, how do you steal signs by making a banging noise? What is a "sign", anyway? What electronics are involved? The article doesn't explain anything.

The catcher will signal a pitch with their hand between their legs. One finger for a fastball, two for a curve, something like that. The reason this communication is necessary is so the catcher sets up correctly to catch e.g. a breaking ball.

What the Astros did was zoom in a camera from the outfield to see this and feed that video straight into the dugout. The person in the dugout with the feed would bang a garbage can (or something) to signal audibly to the person up at bat. Knowing what pitch is coming is a massive advantage for a batter.

It really has to happen in a matter of a second or two in order to work.

Re: How the internet helped crack the Astros' sign-stealing case

#17

Post by thaumasiotes »

incompatible wrote: post #13

For the uninitiated, how do you steal signs by making a banging noise? What is a "sign", anyway? What electronics are involved? The article doesn't explain anything.

I'm basing this on a single article I read that was a little more detailed.

A "sign" is a hand signal the catcher makes to the pitcher, indicating which pitch (fastball / curveball / whatever) the pitcher will throw. If the pitcher wants to throw something else, he shakes his head, and the catcher signals something different. Repeat until the pitcher is happy.

The pitcher's rejection is visible to everyone, but the catcher's signal is hidden.

"Stealing signs" does not refer to stealing the key that translates between hand signals and pitch types, so that you can tell by looking at the signal what pitch will be thrown. That's considered obvious. (I mention this because I assumed that's what "stealing signs" would mean.)

Instead, "stealing signs" refers to looking at the catcher when he signals, so that you see the signal. Interpreting it is then up to you. Oddly, this is explicitly legal if you do it by having a runner on second base, but illegal by any other means.

The electronics involved are a small camera mounted somewhere aimed at the catcher. The banging noise is a simple code -- one bang for signal A; two bangs for signal B; three bangs for signal C... the function is to communicate the signal from the guy off in the bowels of the stadium viewing the camera feed, to the batter who wants to know what pitch to prepare for.

Re: How the internet helped crack the Astros' sign-stealing case

#18

Post by empath75 »

incompatible wrote: post #13

For the uninitiated, how do you steal signs by making a banging noise? What is a "sign", anyway? What electronics are involved? The article doesn't explain anything.

Before the pitcher throws the ball, the catcher signals with his fingers what kind of pitch to throw.

Pitchers switch between straight fastballs and slower curveballs and a pitch called a change up that looks like a fastball delivery but comes across the plate slower.

Obviously if the hitter knew what to expect he’d do a lot better. So the astros had a camera that was looking at the signs and feeding them to the dugout. Then when they knew that a good pitch to hit was coming, they’d make a banging sound. It’s not actually super sophisticated.

You’re actually allowed to steal signs from like a runner on second — you’re not allowed to use a camera to do it.

Re: How the internet helped crack the Astros' sign-stealing case

#19

Post by dole »

incompatible wrote: post #13

For the uninitiated, how do you steal signs by making a banging noise? What is a "sign", anyway? What electronics are involved? The article doesn't explain anything.

A sign is when the crouching catcher flashes a hand gesture between their legs to indicate to the pitcher which type of pitch to throw against the batter. The Astros adjusted the placement of a camera to better see the catcher’s signs, someone on a laptop in the locker room watching the camera would see the sign, bang on a trash can to make a loud noise the dugout and presumably the batter to know when (usually) a fastball was coming. Fastballs have less curve on them, making it easier for the batter to hit when they know one’s coming.

Re: How the internet helped crack the Astros' sign-stealing case

#20

Post by GlenTheMachine »

incompatible wrote: post #13

For the uninitiated, how do you steal signs by making a banging noise? What is a "sign", anyway? What electronics are involved? The article doesn't explain anything.

During a game, the catcher and the pitcher have to both know what pitch is being thrown so the catcher can catch it - it’s hard to catch breaking balls unless you know to expect one. So the game has evolved that the catcher normally “calls” games, eg decides what pitch the pitcher is going to throw. Catchers make careers on how well they call games. They are the smartest players on the field, and have to remember the stats and approaches for every batter on the other team, not only for the starting pitcher that day but also all the relievers that might be used in a game. They communicate the pitch to be thrown to the pitcher using hand signals, normally with the non-catching hand on the inside of their thigh so the batter can’t see the sign.

But anyone behind the pitcher can of course see the sign, and after seeing a few tens of pitches at most can figure out which sign corresponds to which pitch. Knowing what pitch is coming is a significant advantage to the hitter.

It’s legal for a runner on second to watch the catcher and convey those signs to the pitcher, but in MLB it’s strictly illegal to use “technology” - meaning, mostly, optics or electronics.

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