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Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

theatlantic.com

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Re: Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

#71

Post by jugg1es »

hooloovoo_zoo wrote: post #18
virtuous_signal wrote: post #4

>The year I arrived, Hopkins had more legacy students in its freshman class (12.5 percent) than students who were eligible for Pell Grants (9 percent). Now those numbers are reversed—3.5 percent of students in this year’s freshman class have a legacy connection to the university, and 19.1 percent are Pell-eligible This change happened in five years . Such a policy change would be extremely popular. For proponents of…

Another group that stands to lose are those students who were admitted on merit and no longer have access to “mediocre” students with good connections.

Love this point. Not sure if it can be called cynical or not, but a really smart kid would definitely miss out on a networking opportunity with the parents of a legacy friend. Think Bighead from Silicon Valley.

Re: Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

#72

Post by chadash »

virtuous_signal wrote: post #4

>The year I arrived, Hopkins had more legacy students in its freshman class (12.5 percent) than students who were eligible for Pell Grants (9 percent). Now those numbers are reversed—3.5 percent of students in this year’s freshman class have a legacy connection to the university, and 19.1 percent are Pell-eligible This change happened in five years . Such a policy change would be extremely popular. For proponents of…

I once heard the dean of admissions at Columbia claim that they could get rid of the entire incoming class and replace them from kids in the applicant pool without suffering a decline in quality. I'm guessing this is mostly true, save for a few truly impressive students at the tippy top. Given the low number of spots compared to applicants, it's likely that you can fill an entire class with children of alumni without much of a dip in quality. But it sure is unfair to people who don't have parents who went to elite schools.

Re: Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

#73

Post by MiroF »

angry_octet wrote: post #70
MiroF wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true, and I absolutely agree with this decision, however studies have found a clear empirical link between legacy admissions rate and fundraising rates.

I wonder if this continues to hold in the presence of fees calculated on ability to pay? That is, some schools will charge full tuition to people with rich parents and discounted tuition to those with less well off parents.

Yes, as the studies have confirmed this to be the case with Harvard alone - which has the model described. Indeed, most of the elite schools with controversial legacy admissions have practices like that and the effect is still noticeable.

Re: Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

#74

Post by patmorgan23 »

angry_octet wrote: post #69
xnyan wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds very tidy, but reality is not that simple. Here is a very real situation many schools face: you have 100 slots in your school. You objectively determine that X skills are needed to do well in your school. 1000 applicants demonstrate meeting X level of skills. Some of the 1000 clearly show they have skills well above X, but most of the 1000 are roughly equivalent. Which 900 get turned away and how do you d…

Is that really so hard? Random selection?

Why is that better than any other method? Why not have legacy factor in after they've met the admissions standards?

Re: Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

#75

Post by stoops »

patmorgan23 wrote: post #74
angry_octet wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really so hard? Random selection?

Why is that better than any other method? Why not have legacy factor in after they've met the admissions standards?

Why not do it based on their favorite color?

Re: Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

#76

Post by eesmith »

tomohawk wrote: post #24
RobAtticus wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody, not even her, denies that she claimed to be Native American. Snopes is fact checking whether it helped her achieve her position at Harvard. And their conclusion, despite being investigated, no evidence has emerged that it did aid her.

Given that she refuses to release the personnel files that would show what she claimed, I guess we'll never know.

You'll never know because you are doing the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going "la-la-la" when anyone tells you you're wrong.

You are willfully ignoring evidence. You may dismiss Snopes outright, but Snopes is not the sole source of the evidence, but rather a summary. And Snopes links to their sources. Here's one, which is the primary source for one of the paragraphs I quoted:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2018/09/01/did-claim...

In it you'll read a Boston Globe article from 2018:

> But this year, as she campaigns for reelection to the Senate and considers a 2020 presidential bid, she has taken a major step: releasing the contents of her university personnel files to the Globe after six years of rebuffing requests for them.

Re: Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

#77

Post by ravar »

stoops wrote: post #75
patmorgan23 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that better than any other method? Why not have legacy factor in after they've met the admissions standards?

Why not do it based on their favorite color?

If that somehow increases revenue for the institution, why not?

Re: Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

#78

Post by _jasper »

xvector wrote: post #68
_jasper wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With you on 1 and 3 and I'm curious how this decision polls with other stakeholders (i.e. alumni with college-age children whom they want the best for). Your #2 is basically a restatement of mismatch theory[1] which has generated tremendous controversy when applied to the affirmative action debate. [1]: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/12/the-nee...

Talking about affirmative action, what a horrible system. If you're unlucky enough to be born Asian, your difficulty of getting into college has just been doubled. It baffles me that such racist policies are so prominent at some of the best universities in the world. "Personality scores" too. What an inane cover-up for rejecting people and races you don't like. While we're at it, lets get rid of legacy admissions too…

So I think it's possible for colleges to make progress on the legacy admissions front without even touching affirmative action. I would just hope the courts make the right decisions in the future. I doubt affirmative action is a solution that really makes anyone "happy", including the people it is intended to benefit.

Re: Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

#79

Post by cascom »

rm999 wrote: post #32

Really happy to hear this. As someone who went to Hopkins I would fully encourage my children to apply (I had a great time and got an amazing education). But the idea that I spent a few years of my life there 40 years ago feels irrelevant to the admissions process. Any advantage given would be counterproductive in several ways: 1. It would coddle the child at a time in their life when it's essential to learn independ…

In the spirit of debate:

1. I wouldn’t call it coddling - going from say 5% chance to a 15% chance

2. I would hazard that the vast majority of legacy admissions are perfectly capable students - just as would have trouble telling the difference between the performance of the ~5% of applicants that got in, with the next 5% that didn’t

3. Equality of what?

Re: Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

#80

Post by dehrmann »

elfexec wrote: post #59

I remember Harvard defending their race-based admissions policy because of privileges some groups had and disadvantages other groups had. But they never addressed their legacy admissions. After all, who is more advantaged/privileged than the children of harvard grads? If Harvard was truly interested in leveling the playing field, they would also eliminate legacy admissions. If Harvard and other elite schools were con…

Talking about disadvantages and privilege is great and all, but alumni donate money. Best to let in a few legacies and keep the cash flowing.
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