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Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

theatlantic.com

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Re: Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

#11

Post by yostrovs »

eesmith wrote: post #10
notlukesky wrote: post #3

So long as admissions are not solely test based (like in many countries) then it will be gamed. The 2019 college admissions bribery scandal is the tip of the iceberg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_college_admissions_briber... There are also other ways of getting easier admission to selective schools in the US by saying you are for example Native American.

Enough people falsely believe they are Native American - the "Cherokee princess" myth; http://www.native-languages.org/princess.htm - that I can't believe that simply saying one is Native American is enough to get easier admission. Here's how I envision it. I write in my essay that "I'm proud that I'm part Native American. My grandmother told me that her great-grandmother was Cherokee. My ancestors were forced off th…

Please review the case of Elizabeth Warren. She became a Harvard professor by saying she's a native Cherokee.

Re: Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

#12

Post by eesmith »

yostrovs wrote: post #11
eesmith wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enough people falsely believe they are Native American - the "Cherokee princess" myth; http://www.native-languages.org/princess.htm - that I can't believe that simply saying one is Native American is enough to get easier admission. Here's how I envision it. I write in my essay that "I'm proud that I'm part Native American. My grandmother told me that her great-grandmother was Cherokee. My ancestors were forced off th…

Please review the case of Elizabeth Warren. She became a Harvard professor by saying she's a native Cherokee.

notlukesky was talking about admissions to selective universities, not employment as a professor.

Following your tangent, yes, I have reviewed it, and not, she did not. There is no evidence, despite considerable review, that that happened, and you are repeating false propaganda.

Eg, https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/elizabeth-warren-wealthy-n... :

> But specific evidence that she gained her position at Harvard (at least in part) through her claims to Native American heritage is lacking. Warren denied applying for special consideration as a person of Native American heritage during her career, and when the matter was examined in 2012 in response to Brown’s claims, people with whom Warren had worked similarly denied her ancestral background’s factoring into the professional opportunities afforded her ...

> In the most exhaustive review undertaken of Elizabeth Warren’s professional history, the Globe found clear evidence, in documents and interviews, that her claim to Native American ethnicity was never considered by the Harvard Law faculty, which voted resoundingly to hire her, or by those who hired her to four prior positions at other law schools. At every step of her remarkable rise in the legal profession, the people responsible for hiring her saw her as a white woman.

Re: Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

#13

Post by lmkg »

notlukesky wrote: post #3

So long as admissions are not solely test based (like in many countries) then it will be gamed. The 2019 college admissions bribery scandal is the tip of the iceberg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_college_admissions_briber... There are also other ways of getting easier admission to selective schools in the US by saying you are for example Native American.

But test-based admissions can also be gamed. And the scandal that you cited has quite a few examples of that.

Re: Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

#14

Post by mobilefriendly »

virtuous_signal wrote: post #4

>The year I arrived, Hopkins had more legacy students in its freshman class (12.5 percent) than students who were eligible for Pell Grants (9 percent). Now those numbers are reversed—3.5 percent of students in this year’s freshman class have a legacy connection to the university, and 19.1 percent are Pell-eligible This change happened in five years . Such a policy change would be extremely popular. For proponents of…

"mediocre children of alumni" This is an unfair description of the advantage of legacy at an elite school. It's typically an edge, like playing a sport or belonging to an under-represented demographic.

Re: Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

#15

Post by Bostonian »

iecheruo wrote: post #9
Bostonian wrote: post #2

The principle that you should not be penalized by the family you are born into would also prohibit racial preferences, but I don't see that addressed in the article.

When deeply accustomed to privilege, attempts to restore merit often present as penalty. Removing legacy preference in favor of merit is not penalization. The article does not advocate admission based on racial preference. It does point out that a level playing field allows more applications of merit from races that would traditionally be displaced.

"Removing legacy preference in favor of merit is not penalization."

Yes, but almost all selective U.S. schools do have racial preferences in admissions, which do disadvantage students who do not receive those preferences. My son is applying to college this year. He will benefit from legacy preference at one school he is applying to, but at every other school, he will be discriminated against because he is not an under-represented minority and because his parents are well-educated -- he will not be a "first-gen" college student. Today the Left is inconsistent in its advocacy of merit-based admissions, opposing legacy preferences but not other preferences.

Re: Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

#16

Post by virtuous_signal »

mobilefriendly wrote: post #14
virtuous_signal wrote: post #4

>The year I arrived, Hopkins had more legacy students in its freshman class (12.5 percent) than students who were eligible for Pell Grants (9 percent). Now those numbers are reversed—3.5 percent of students in this year’s freshman class have a legacy connection to the university, and 19.1 percent are Pell-eligible This change happened in five years . Such a policy change would be extremely popular. For proponents of…

"mediocre children of alumni" This is an unfair description of the advantage of legacy at an elite school. It's typically an edge, like playing a sport or belonging to an under-represented demographic.

I'm aware that it's typically an edge; what I mean by "mediocre" is not a personal description, but rather the state of being quantitatively less meritorious than those students who gained admission without the legacy edge.

Re: Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

#18

Post by hooloovoo_zoo »

virtuous_signal wrote: post #4

>The year I arrived, Hopkins had more legacy students in its freshman class (12.5 percent) than students who were eligible for Pell Grants (9 percent). Now those numbers are reversed—3.5 percent of students in this year’s freshman class have a legacy connection to the university, and 19.1 percent are Pell-eligible This change happened in five years . Such a policy change would be extremely popular. For proponents of…

Another group that stands to lose are those students who were admitted on merit and no longer have access to “mediocre” students with good connections.

Re: Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

#19

Post by tomohawk »

eesmith wrote: post #12
yostrovs wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please review the case of Elizabeth Warren. She became a Harvard professor by saying she's a native Cherokee.

notlukesky was talking about admissions to selective universities, not employment as a professor. Following your tangent, yes, I have reviewed it, and not, she did not. There is no evidence, despite considerable review, that that happened, and you are repeating false propaganda. Eg, https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/elizabeth-warren-wealthy-n... : > But specific evidence that she gained her position at Harvard (at le…

Snopes is not what it once was.

You can clearly see her false claim in her own hand writing here:

https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article237751529.h...

Re: Ending Legacy Admissions at Johns Hopkins

#20

Post by WaxProlix »

Bostonian wrote: post #15
iecheruo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When deeply accustomed to privilege, attempts to restore merit often present as penalty. Removing legacy preference in favor of merit is not penalization. The article does not advocate admission based on racial preference. It does point out that a level playing field allows more applications of merit from races that would traditionally be displaced.

"Removing legacy preference in favor of merit is not penalization." Yes, but almost all selective U.S. schools do have racial preferences in admissions, which do disadvantage students who do not receive those preferences. My son is applying to college this year. He will benefit from legacy preference at one school he is applying to, but at every other school, he will be discriminated against because he is not an unde…

Oh no, do you think he'll be okay? :'(
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