Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet • Hacker News Board

Re: Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet

#141

Post by spankalee » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

LatteLazy wrote: post #123

cortesoft wrote: post #26

> Obviously, some students thought that fee was ridiculous – just like paying for parking at a university where you’re already paying a hefty tuition fee I hate parking fees as much as the next person, and totally appreciate the creativity of the people who defeated this device. However, how should we handle distributing a limited number of parking spaces when there are more people who want to park than available spa…

I get where you're coming from and I agree that people should pay what they owe, but just to split hairs... Paying for parking isn't a "fair" way to distribute it. What is meant to happen is that paying for it funds the creation of more parking (ground level parks are converted to multistories etc). So paying is a necessary evil to create and maintain enough of something to go around. With a monopoly supplier, like h…

20% fewer drivers benefits everyone, so that's not a bad policy.

Re: Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet

#142

Post by bootlooped » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

rtempaccount1 wrote: post #61

cortesoft wrote: post #26

> Obviously, some students thought that fee was ridiculous – just like paying for parking at a university where you’re already paying a hefty tuition fee I hate parking fees as much as the next person, and totally appreciate the creativity of the people who defeated this device. However, how should we handle distributing a limited number of parking spaces when there are more people who want to park than available spa…

Wouldn't it make sense that the university, that is charging the students all this money, ensure they have enough parking spaces to satisfy likely demand? Doesn't seem unreasonable for universities with very high tuitions, to provide amenities like reliably available parking.

The good thing about charging is that is discourages use of a finite resource, and encourages the use of cheaper and more environmentally friendly options like car pooling, public transit, etc... If you make something free people soak it up.

That said I'm not sure how much those nudges matter when people need to get to class, and they might already have a schedule too busy to coordinate car pooling, and maybe their town or city doesn't have very good public transit. All of those things applied to me when I was going to college. I just parked in the closest residential neighborhood, which should probably be seen as a negative side effect of charging students for parking on campus.

Re: Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet

#143

Post by threatofrain » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #26

> Obviously, some students thought that fee was ridiculous – just like paying for parking at a university where you’re already paying a hefty tuition fee I hate parking fees as much as the next person, and totally appreciate the creativity of the people who defeated this device. However, how should we handle distributing a limited number of parking spaces when there are more people who want to park than available spa…

Isn’t the parking situation almost like overbooking a venue and hoping the musical chairs works out?

Re: Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet

#144

Post by gdgdhsjakdb » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 5:58 PM UTC

apcragg wrote: post #82

Thriptic wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increase supply. Most schools use flat parking lots instead of multistory car parks which would be far more efficient. Alternatively, run public transportation that doesn't suck.

A spot in a multistory parking desk costs upwards of $30,000 per spot. Even if you oversell permits by 2x and assume a 50-year lifespan with no maintenance, that is still $300/yr per parking permit. Why should students who want the exclusive right to leave their property on campus be subsidized by students who take more space/environmentally efficients modes of getting to campus?

$30k is in a place like NYC. The typical cost is much lower:

> As of March 2019, our statistical data indicates that the median construction cost for a new parking structure is $21,500 per space

Re: Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet

#145

Post by cortesoft » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 6:00 PM UTC

wiml wrote: post #139

cortesoft wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the plan could be to destroy random cars if the parking lot is full, to make space for more. That might be slightly worse than this person's plan.

Hey, if it's good enough for Linux memory management, it's good enough for parking.

VROOM killer

Re: Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet

#146

Post by beatgammit » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 6:00 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #103

cortesoft wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just spreading the cost of parking to people who don't use it... instead of only people who drive their own cars paying for the parking, now everyone has to. Does the school also pay for public transportation for people who don't drive? Or the extra housing costs of the people who pay extra to live close enough to walk?

This new engineering building is just spreading the cost of classrooms to people who don’t use it. This new fitness building is just spreading the cost of athletics to people who don’t use it. The new wheelchair ramps are just spreading the cost of being handicapped to people who don’t use it. You could apply that logic to all of a college (or life, if you count taxes and insurance) experience. Not everybody is going…

To be fair, many college buildings are provided in large part by donations, but I don't think the same is true for parking lots.

Ideally, each student would receive value from the university roughly relative to the tuition they pay, and things that are completely optional should be charged for separately. I think it's reasonable to charge separately for:

- cafeterias - housing - tickets to performances

Why should parking be treated separately? Providing parking for free just encourages more parking, which means more pressure to create more parking, etc. Charging for it separately encourages more efficient commutes, whether by bus, bike, walking, or carpooling.

The same goes for cities and other areas with limited resources. Charging for those limited resources encourages more efficient use of those resources, as well as alternatives. Parking is merely one solution to transportation, why should we subsidize it over others?

Re: Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet

#147

Post by phkahler » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 6:01 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #26

> Obviously, some students thought that fee was ridiculous – just like paying for parking at a university where you’re already paying a hefty tuition fee I hate parking fees as much as the next person, and totally appreciate the creativity of the people who defeated this device. However, how should we handle distributing a limited number of parking spaces when there are more people who want to park than available spa…

How about just building a parking structure? That seems the only way to actually solve the problem.

Re: Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet

#148

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 6:03 PM UTC

prostheticvamp wrote: post #128

chrisseaton wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who do you think should pay for the impact of your parking? The land use, pollution, congestion. Someone else, I guess?

And the campus is paying for those externalities with that parking fee? Or they’re pocketing it as profit?

[deleted]

Re: Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet

#149

Post by chrisseaton » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 6:07 PM UTC

legohead wrote: post #97

acdha wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should the campus subsidize the car-owning students? If those students want exclusive use of a public space why not let them pay market rates for it?

The students are paying for a service from the University. It's very reasonable that the University provide parking space for those who can't afford to live on campus. Actually, it's in their best interest, unless they want to be an online school. And thus similarly in the best interest of all students, if they want a locally accessible University to exist.

> The students are paying for a service from the University.

Yes but not a parking service. If you want to park, arrange that yourself somewhere else, like a private garage.

Re: Students defeat new 'Barnacle' parking clamp, skip fines and get free internet

#150

Post by scythe » Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 6:09 PM UTC

xyst wrote: post #49

cortesoft wrote: post #26

> Obviously, some students thought that fee was ridiculous – just like paying for parking at a university where you’re already paying a hefty tuition fee I hate parking fees as much as the next person, and totally appreciate the creativity of the people who defeated this device. However, how should we handle distributing a limited number of parking spaces when there are more people who want to park than available spa…

Mass transportation options coupled with high density buildings should be the way to go. Parking just doesn’t scale. The uni I went to had a decent bus system that had routes along the major apt complexes (private and uni owner). Buses were usually on time, and likely faster than trying to find a parking spot.

It's great if you have them, but the more common situation seems to be to jack up parking prices while transit is still abysmal.

At Georgia Tech there was a bus that ran once every 15 minutes to the subway, and even then you couldn't get everywhere on campus from that bus, you had to take another bus, leading to 20+ minutes of transfers to get anywhere. Bus shelters were mostly nonexistent in winters that featured frequent high winds and rain. Taking the bus was such a miserable experience I ended up skateboarding everywhere, which at least kept me warm.