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Barr’s Encryption Push Is Decades in the Making

wsj.com

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Re: Barr’s Encryption Push Is Decades in the Making

#121

Post by nickthemagicman »

krapp wrote: post #29
skybrian wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ben Franklin would have done well on Twitter, but this is in essence a snappy Revolution War slogan, nothing more. It makes a false binary distinction and real world decisions are more complicated.

>Ben Franklin would have done well on Twitter, but this is in essence a snappy Revolution War slogan, nothing more. It actually isn't, it's a snippet of a greater dialogue with often taken out of context in order to to infer precisely the opposite meaning of what was intended[0,1]. Ben Franklin understood the nuance and complexity of the real world better than many of the libertarians and ancaps who quote him.. [0] h…

Those articles do a poor job of discrediting the ideas of the actual quote.

They say that the origin is not what people think?

Many of the founding fathers had slaves. Doesn't make the constitution any less valid. Mel Gibson is a terrible person but Braveheart is an amazing movie.

The origin of something does not discredit its ideas.

Re: Barr’s Encryption Push Is Decades in the Making

#122

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

blackflame wrote: post #78

I’m a republican and I totally disagree with Barr’s push. I honestly believe that once enough people explain to Trump the implications of unlocking one phone he’s pragmatic enough not to unbottle that genie. He’s been much more reserved than many would have expected given the loudness of his bark.

I guess that may be part of the issue. For better or worse, I check president's twitter feed from time to time and one of his recent shares includes a talking point about Apple not helping with the phone.

One would think he would want to not let goverment have this power, but, well, perception of things depend on where you sit. Right now he sits in the WH.

Re: Barr’s Encryption Push Is Decades in the Making

#123

Post by BLKNSLVR »

skrebbel wrote: post #107
Simon_says wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amendment 3 is pretty tough.

Googled it so you don't have to: "The Third Amendment to the United States Constitution places restrictions on the quartering of soldiers in private homes without the owner's consent, forbidding the practice in peacetime."

How well defined is 'peacetime'?

Re: Barr’s Encryption Push Is Decades in the Making

#124

Post by BLKNSLVR »

robomartin wrote: post #91
cycomanic wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is unfortunate that Americans always propagate the story that the US system is still special, but I guess the thought is part of the self-image ("we are the greatest country in the world") . It's not 1788 anymore. Yes at the time the US constitution was special, but the world moved on and many countries took inspiration from the US constitution. Generally human rights (as for example defined by the UN declaration…

I think you are misinterpreting what I said. This is about a difference in law and not about being special in any way. Also, don’t fall into generalizations of “Americans” and the whole “greatest country in the world” meme. This isn’t Star Trek, where all Klingons are a uniform cultural and behavioral monoblock.

Don't often hear folks from the US complain about being stereotyped.

Fair enough though, so long as it's applied consistently.

Re: Barr’s Encryption Push Is Decades in the Making

#125

Post by GordonS »

rcoveson wrote: post #11

There's a balance that must be struck between the efficiency of law enforcement and the freedom of citizens. Personally, I lean heavily towards the latter, and I think this is the reason: My life and the lives of those I know are affected by criminals or terrorists with absurdly low frequency. I'm sure this is true of many Americans; perhaps more true now than ever in history. So why is it that there is so much suppo…

I think a large segment of mass media fuels the problem. Tabloid-style news is written to shock and anger readers, because that, unfortunately, is what sells.

Politicians realised the "benefits" of this long ago, stoking the fires of rage, whipping people up into a frenzy, all to "keep them safe".

And so a large slice of the population really believes there are terrorists and criminals lurking around every corner - that things have never been more dangerous; and so they allow politicians to strip their freedoms and gain sweeping powers, because its all to "keep them safe".

Re: Barr’s Encryption Push Is Decades in the Making

#126

Post by nickthemagicman »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #123
skrebbel wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Googled it so you don't have to: "The Third Amendment to the United States Constitution places restrictions on the quartering of soldiers in private homes without the owner's consent, forbidding the practice in peacetime."

How well defined is 'peacetime'?

There's groups out there I'm sure that could make the justification that something like 'the war on drugs' or 'the war on belly fat' means we're not at peacetime.

Re: Barr’s Encryption Push Is Decades in the Making

#127

Post by nickthemagicman »

GordonS wrote: post #125
rcoveson wrote: post #11

There's a balance that must be struck between the efficiency of law enforcement and the freedom of citizens. Personally, I lean heavily towards the latter, and I think this is the reason: My life and the lives of those I know are affected by criminals or terrorists with absurdly low frequency. I'm sure this is true of many Americans; perhaps more true now than ever in history. So why is it that there is so much suppo…

I think a large segment of mass media fuels the problem. Tabloid-style news is written to shock and anger readers, because that, unfortunately, is what sells. Politicians realised the "benefits" of this long ago, stoking the fires of rage, whipping people up into a frenzy, all to "keep them safe". And so a large slice of the population really believes there are terrorists and criminals lurking around every corner - t…

It's this. People are bad at statistics so it's easy to influence them with sensationalism.

Re: Barr’s Encryption Push Is Decades in the Making

#128

Post by dtech »

robomartin wrote: post #51
jeffdavis wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The typical cry is "We should do the same". Well, we can't. Government did not grant, nor does it own that right. No, we can do that. The government can merely assume the power, as governments so often do. Paper is not a defense. A "Bill of Rights" containing only a single right would be of zero value. What is a defense is the bundling of recognized rights, as in the Bill of Rights. It's like an alliance: an assaul…

No argument there. I never understood the obsession with AR-15's when their contribution to crime, over, say, the last 20 years, is basically a rounding error. The only answer is: politics taking advantage of emotion for political gains. The best example of just how stupid the whole "assault ban gun" idea is found in Chicago, where the weekly carnage has not relented in years and the weapon of choice is nearly 100% h…

> No argument there. I never understood the obsession with AR-15's when their contribution to crime, over, say, the last 20 years, is basically a rounding error. The only answer is: politics taking advantage of emotion for political gains.

And that it has been the weapon of choice for school shooters.

Re: Barr’s Encryption Push Is Decades in the Making

#129

Post by SkyBelow »

olliej wrote: post #15
rcoveson wrote: post #11

There's a balance that must be struck between the efficiency of law enforcement and the freedom of citizens. Personally, I lean heavily towards the latter, and I think this is the reason: My life and the lives of those I know are affected by criminals or terrorists with absurdly low frequency. I'm sure this is true of many Americans; perhaps more true now than ever in history. So why is it that there is so much suppo…

But encryption doesn’t have “mostly safe”. It has safe and not safe. There isn’t a meaningful in between.

Isn't encryption really 'most likely safe' and 'unsafe'. It has been a while since I've spent much time reading into the details, but the encryption we depend upon generally isn't proven safe, just failed to have been proven unsafe by many experts after many years.

Re: Barr’s Encryption Push Is Decades in the Making

#130

Post by SkyBelow »

corporate_shi11 wrote: post #42
rcoveson wrote: post #11

There's a balance that must be struck between the efficiency of law enforcement and the freedom of citizens. Personally, I lean heavily towards the latter, and I think this is the reason: My life and the lives of those I know are affected by criminals or terrorists with absurdly low frequency. I'm sure this is true of many Americans; perhaps more true now than ever in history. So why is it that there is so much suppo…

Oftentimes systemic crime manifests more as an erosion of trust in institutions and the healthy functioning of a society than as something which impacts individuals in a direct way on a regular basis. For instance, consider Mexican organized crime (cartels). Cartels wield a huge amount of illicit influence and generally make everyone's lives much worse, but most people aren't being kidnapped or confronted by cartels…

>brings the creeping threat of social decay ever closer

Doesn't most available data indicate it is moving in the opposite direction and that people's perception are biased by the 24 hour news cycle which leads people to think crime has gotten worse?

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