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Comac engineers miscalculated the forces that would be placed on the engines

reuters.com

51–60 of 72 posts

Re: Comac engineers miscalculated the forces that would be placed on the engines

#51

Minor detail: C919 somehow strikes me as a non-impressive-sounding moniker. The sound of it is somehow "off". Does it "sound" better in Chinese? Not sure how to explain it better.

How impressive does B747 or A380 sound? Manufacturers have largely stopped giving fancy names to airliners, and I'm sure Boeing has some regrets about calling the 787 'Dreamliner'.

Re: Comac engineers miscalculated the forces that would be placed on the engines

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is sort of one of the metrics James Fallows outlined in his book, "China Airborne". In order to build a competitive airliner, it requires integration of so many discipline: metallurgy, software, aeronautics, engineering, etc. He argues that when China can build a competitive airliner, their development can be said to have to be on par with the West.

Noah Smith has a theory that one of the best ways to develop a country that’s nearing an inflection point is to commit to building something like this. His example is a coastal African country committing to building an Aircraft Carrier. You would need to develop advanced capabilities across a dozen industries and it could realistically kickstart competition in every one of those areas as the local skills level up. It…

I always had the imagination that the aircraft carrier wasn't that hard. The planes that can operate from the carrier. I imagined were harder.

Re: Comac engineers miscalculated the forces that would be placed on the engines

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh? This is China's first time trying to build a commercial narrow body airliner, isn't it? So its not like they used to have the capability and forgot how to do it, they're developing it for the first time.

This is China's first time trying to build a commercial narrow body airliner, isn't it? Second – the ARJ21 was the first.

Why not buy the remnants of fokker or dornier and carry on from there?

Re: Comac engineers miscalculated the forces that would be placed on the engines

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noah Smith has a theory that one of the best ways to develop a country that’s nearing an inflection point is to commit to building something like this. His example is a coastal African country committing to building an Aircraft Carrier. You would need to develop advanced capabilities across a dozen industries and it could realistically kickstart competition in every one of those areas as the local skills level up. It…

I always had the imagination that the aircraft carrier wasn't that hard. The planes that can operate from the carrier. I imagined were harder.

I think you'd need a few orders of magnitude more skilled workers to build a carrier vs. building a new airframe. I think the end skills will be much more useful to a developing economy as well (since they're better suited to heavy industry vs. more technical skills when developing a plane) but I could definitely be wrong there.

Re: Comac engineers miscalculated the forces that would be placed on the engines

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is China's first time trying to build a commercial narrow body airliner, isn't it? Second – the ARJ21 was the first.

Why not buy the remnants of fokker or dornier and carry on from there?

Dunno what's left of either of those two companies (or the willingness of the EU to sell to China) but neither really had anything that would compete with the A220/A320/B737.

The ARJ was an attempt at a refreshed MD-80 with tooling from McDonnell Douglas and a ton of outsourced bits and it still flopped.

Per the article COMAC is resorting to espionage, so I imagine they think going the legal route won't pan out for them.

Re: Comac engineers miscalculated the forces that would be placed on the engines

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is sort of one of the metrics James Fallows outlined in his book, "China Airborne". In order to build a competitive airliner, it requires integration of so many discipline: metallurgy, software, aeronautics, engineering, etc. He argues that when China can build a competitive airliner, their development can be said to have to be on par with the West.

It's worth noting that Brazil[1] has been exporting aircraft for quite some time, although it's still regarded as 3rd world. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer

3rd world doesn’t mean poorly developed.

It just means not 1st world (NATO countries) or 2nd (Soviet Bloc)

Re: Comac engineers miscalculated the forces that would be placed on the engines

#57
post #11

The recent failures of Boeing and this story underscore how very, very, very, very difficult it is to build a modern airliner. I'm hard pressed to come up with any other product which has as many complex interacting systems, requiring expertise in aerodynamics, materials science, mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, software, UX design among other things, with very little margin for error. Honestly they're…

> any other product

You can design a car with very little math. An airplane requires a lot of math. A spacecraft - everything is math, because the margins are awfully slim.

Re: Comac engineers miscalculated the forces that would be placed on the engines

#58
post #11

The recent failures of Boeing and this story underscore how very, very, very, very difficult it is to build a modern airliner. I'm hard pressed to come up with any other product which has as many complex interacting systems, requiring expertise in aerodynamics, materials science, mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, software, UX design among other things, with very little margin for error. Honestly they're…

> any other product You can design a car with very little math. An airplane requires a lot of math. A spacecraft - everything is math, because the margins are awfully slim.

By the way, a huge reason the Wrights were successful with their 1903 Flyer and the others weren't was because they did the math, and the others were doing trial and error. Or more accurately, just error :-)

The Wrights are often dismissed as mere "bicycle mechanics", but they were anything but "mere".

Re: Comac engineers miscalculated the forces that would be placed on the engines

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is sort of one of the metrics James Fallows outlined in his book, "China Airborne". In order to build a competitive airliner, it requires integration of so many discipline: metallurgy, software, aeronautics, engineering, etc. He argues that when China can build a competitive airliner, their development can be said to have to be on par with the West.

It's worth noting that Brazil[1] has been exporting aircraft for quite some time, although it's still regarded as 3rd world. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer

Brasil has benefitted a lot from technology exchange with Saab. For those of you who are not familiar with the concept, the idea ,(very simplified) is that Brasil buys a lot of Saab planes, and in return gets knowledge about latest Swedish advances in the field. And Sweden, while perhaps not best in class, builds decent military planes, and I assume at least some of the knowledge is transferable to civil applications as well.

Re: Comac engineers miscalculated the forces that would be placed on the engines

#60
When talking about the duopoly, the article omits Sukhoi Superjet, though it seems to not be an easy alternative airliner: https://www.airportspotting.com/cityjets-sukhoi-superjets/

The comments on the page are really good. It seems the plane itself was good but simple lack of culture of fast spare parts delivery made the planes unprofitable.

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