51–60 of 88 posts
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> life is meaningless This is actually objectively true, our life are not different to the laws of physics then a rock on the surface of Mars. Our life is meaningful to ourselves, however.
"The universe doesn't care about us" =/= "the basis for meaning doesn't care about us". That is, "the laws of physics" =/= "the source of meaning".
Nihilism goes hand-in-hand with atheism, doesn't it? If you don't believe that the Universe is operating according to the scheme(s) of some kind of "divine being(s)", it's hard to see where any "meaning" would come from. It's just mindless and possibly deterministic motion. That is unless you can somehow derive "meaning" as an emergent concept and see it as significant. Desires originate in biology that has evolved t…
I've not infrequently found nihilism intellectually attractive. Usually, something like political nihilism. One problem that I think has long been overlooked is the foundation of human rights. Only in the past roughly five years has there been much scholarly contribution on the matter. What could possibly ground human rights? And if they have no ground, then aren't they simply the same as the preference for, say, pee…
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"> life is meaningless This is actually objectively true" Definitely not 'objectively true'. It's only 'objectively true' from a narrow materialist perspective, and there are other ways to look at it. "our life are not different to the laws of physics then a rock on the surface of Mars. Our life is meaningful to ourselves, however." This is really quite some contradiction. First - the materialist assumption (which I…
> Consider what 'ourselves' (i.e. life, consciousness) are - something that's by definition not possible to describe with 'physics' because we've ruled it out (energy and matter acting according to rules cannot be 'aware' or 'conscious'). I’m not sure I follow.
>One is obliged to admit that perception and what depends upon it is inexplicable on mechanical principles, that is, by figures and motions. In imagining that there is a machine whose construction would enable it to think, to sense, and to have perception, one could conceive it enlarged while retaining the same proportions, so that one could enter into it, just like into a windmill. Supposing this, one should, when visiting within it, find only parts pushing one another, and never anything by which to explain a perception. Thus it is in the simple substance, and not in the composite or in the machine, that one must look for perception.
"Nihilism: the rejection of all religious and moral principles, in the belief that life is meaningless;" Oxford. Concise and seems pretty clear to me. While the article is well written, it doesn't really adds much IMO.
> life is meaningless This is actually objectively true, our life are not different to the laws of physics then a rock on the surface of Mars. Our life is meaningful to ourselves, however.
One person can use it as an excuse to turn to woe, another person can use it as an excuse to treat the world as their oyster.
Nihilism on its own is merely the recognition of the random and arbitrary nature of reality.
Huh. I did maybe a couple decades of applied nihilism, as presented by Landmark Education. It helped me a lot, given that I'm bipolar and prone to pessimism and depression. So this makes sense to me: > If, as I suggested earlier, nihilism and pessimism are opposites, then nihilism is actually much closer to optimism. But not this: > Such a lack of awareness is the point of nihilism, as nihilism is all about hiding fr…
PSA, Landmark Forum was banned as a cult in France after the release of an investigative documentary [0] which they tried vigorously to suppress. The group is a magnet for vulnerable people who respond to authoritarian style leadership and coercive psychological techniques including public shaming and gaslighting. They strongly discourage participants from taking notes. Anyone with a history of trauma, abuse or adver…
There is a heavy emphasis on participants sharing experience with the group, and being coached to see their machinery. But it's a stretch to call that "public shaming and gaslighting".
However, people are sometimes very attached to their interpretations, and it can get very intense. But you can leave, at any time. And if you leave early enough, they'll refund your payment.
Edit: This is representative, based on my experience: https://praxis.fortelabs.co/a-skeptic-goes-to-the-landmark-f...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
PSA, Landmark Forum was banned as a cult in France after the release of an investigative documentary [0] which they tried vigorously to suppress. The group is a magnet for vulnerable people who respond to authoritarian style leadership and coercive psychological techniques including public shaming and gaslighting. They strongly discourage participants from taking notes. Anyone with a history of trauma, abuse or adver…
Some do claim that it's a cult. But that's not my experience. Course leaders are generally highly charismatic, but are not typically authoritarian. There is a heavy emphasis on participants sharing experience with the group, and being coached to see their machinery. But it's a stretch to call that "public shaming and gaslighting". However, people are sometimes very attached to their interpretations, and it can get ve…
The authoritarianism increases as one moves up levels and more "secrets" are revealed. At the ground floor, it's welcoming and communal, but as you are further inculcated the number of "secrets" or "mysteries" revealed, the amount of potential personal exposure (read: blackmail and/or punishment for treachery) and the amount of authoritarianism rises steeply.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
PSA, Landmark Forum was banned as a cult in France after the release of an investigative documentary [0] which they tried vigorously to suppress. The group is a magnet for vulnerable people who respond to authoritarian style leadership and coercive psychological techniques including public shaming and gaslighting. They strongly discourage participants from taking notes. Anyone with a history of trauma, abuse or adver…
Some do claim that it's a cult. But that's not my experience. Course leaders are generally highly charismatic, but are not typically authoritarian. There is a heavy emphasis on participants sharing experience with the group, and being coached to see their machinery. But it's a stretch to call that "public shaming and gaslighting". However, people are sometimes very attached to their interpretations, and it can get ve…
Another little known fact: Landmark was based on the IP from Werner Erhard’s Est seminars in the 70s, which in turn incorporated specific techniques from Scientology [1]. Some of these fun Scientology influences still exist in today’s forum trainings.
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Personally, I see nihilism as part of strategic deployment like any other philosophical position. If nothing has inherent meaning then you are the one who has power to give meaning to things. You can avoid giving meaning to mishaps, mistakes, past, nasty comments and anxiety while cherishing and making other things more meaningful (to yourself). Nihilism opens door to countering positions such as above. By using it,…
> If nothing has inherent meaning then you are the one who has power to give meaning to things. You can avoid giving meaning to mishaps, mistakes, past, nasty comments and anxiety while cherishing and making other things more meaningful (to yourself). Yes, that's exactly it. It's amazing how just noticing that I'm making myself miserable can bring a smile to my face. Or at least, a grin. > The feeling of being able t…
The worst part about that is my avoidant behavior of self care in the pursuit of work that feels good. There are other issues that made it that way. It's akin to being addicted to hard drugs (not meant to be insensitive. Can't find any other analogy atm). Mind and body want different things while also being on their own in the reception/outcome. Priorities shuffle in a matter of minutes if you are not concentrating and controlling yourself. Having so much self control is exhausting when others don't have to do this and makes me wonder whether am I alive at all sometimes. Letting out anything becomes difficult and I really believe my future is gonna be full of substance abuse.
> It's just that stuff reminds us of a morass of similar past experiences. And there are associated feelings, which have been reinforced through repetition since we were very young.
I know but things went wrong my entire childhood and they still are. While I try to avoid things that reinforces negative emotions, some of them are just unavoidable. Eg - washroom...painful memories there.
I wish I had means to reward myself but I don't. Things that may have worked as a reward is an addictive dependency now and I truly don't care about most things including what I get to eat or whether even I get food at all.
That last part alone makes people doubt and fill in holes with their broken explanation which then I need to reassert how eating food in some situation is objectively better hence I do it but I wouldn't in lack of friction to avoid eating it therefore I don't desire the food for it's merit but external factors force me into it.
Do people enjoy things on their own merits or external factors coerces them to enjoy something?
I can't figure out the answer because I do most things for avoidance.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some do claim that it's a cult. But that's not my experience. Course leaders are generally highly charismatic, but are not typically authoritarian. There is a heavy emphasis on participants sharing experience with the group, and being coached to see their machinery. But it's a stretch to call that "public shaming and gaslighting". However, people are sometimes very attached to their interpretations, and it can get ve…
If by “some” you mean the government of France, then yeah. Another little known fact: Landmark was based on the IP from Werner Erhard’s Est seminars in the 70s, which in turn incorporated specific techniques from Scientology [1]. Some of these fun Scientology influences still exist in today’s forum trainings. 1. http://www.skepdic.com/est.html
And yes, Werner did take some stuff from Scientology. But not the bits about ghosts of aliens nuked on Earth, millions of years ago ;)
Scientology is still probably behind many attacks on Landmark. And I wouldn't be surprised if they were part of the mess in France.