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Quindar Tones: the beeps heard in recordings of astronauts in space

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Re: Quindar Tones: the beeps heard in recordings of astronauts in space

#51

Post by EFruit »

jcrawfordor wrote: post #39

A somewhat similar system used in modern radio systems (well, radio systems that are now outdated, but still in widespread use) is two-tone sequential paging or the related QuikCall. These are in-band audio tones used to cause some receivers to open squelch as a form of selective calling. The method is predominantly used in public safety radio systems, where tone paging may be used to cause a fixed receiver in a stat…

The NOAA system has a name: SAME, or Specific Area Message Encoding[1]. As the name implies, those three bursts actually contain a whole packet of information regarding the incoming message, including areas of effect, hazard type, duration, source of the alert, etc. There are pieces of software out there that let you decode the packets, and some let you encode your own, like minimodem[2]. Do be aware that transmitting valid SAME packets over broadcast media tends to be very poorly viewed by the FCC because it actually triggers mechanisms in the broadcast system, as GP noted.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_Area_Message_Encoding 2: http://www.whence.com/minimodem/

Re: Quindar Tones: the beeps heard in recordings of astronauts in space

#52

Post by derefr »

EFruit wrote: post #51
jcrawfordor wrote: post #39

A somewhat similar system used in modern radio systems (well, radio systems that are now outdated, but still in widespread use) is two-tone sequential paging or the related QuikCall. These are in-band audio tones used to cause some receivers to open squelch as a form of selective calling. The method is predominantly used in public safety radio systems, where tone paging may be used to cause a fixed receiver in a stat…

The NOAA system has a name: SAME, or Specific Area Message Encoding[1]. As the name implies, those three bursts actually contain a whole packet of information regarding the incoming message, including areas of effect, hazard type, duration, source of the alert, etc. There are pieces of software out there that let you decode the packets, and some let you encode your own, like minimodem[2]. Do be aware that transmittin…

Would anything interesting happen if a valid SAME packet were dropped into the FM sub-carrier of a television signal on a CATV or DBS network?

Re: Quindar Tones: the beeps heard in recordings of astronauts in space

#53

Post by derefr »

dfox wrote: post #50
blattimwind wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SIP, which is very much an internet protocol designed by phone people. Allegedly SIP is much better than the ITU's H.32x standards, and if that is true, then H.32X has to be an unspeakable horror.

H.323 is the internet protocol designed by phone people, SIP is prime example of second systems effect caused by internet people trying to make it “more internet-ish”. The reason why H.323 is “unspeakable horror” to internet people is mostly about it being built on top of existing practice of telco signaling, so: global titles instead of URIs and ASN.1 PER instead of HTTP-style (in case of SIP arguably overly verbose…

> while SIP works in terms of complete SIP URIs and the user terminal has to somehow divine that the dialed number is complete

I've never used a softphone that doesn't have an explicit Call button. You're telling me that there are terminals where people can just pound SIP URIs in one character at a time, and the call will just decide to initiate at some point?

Re: Quindar Tones: the beeps heard in recordings of astronauts in space

#54

Post by dfox »

derefr wrote: post #53
dfox wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H.323 is the internet protocol designed by phone people, SIP is prime example of second systems effect caused by internet people trying to make it “more internet-ish”. The reason why H.323 is “unspeakable horror” to internet people is mostly about it being built on top of existing practice of telco signaling, so: global titles instead of URIs and ASN.1 PER instead of HTTP-style (in case of SIP arguably overly verbose…

> while SIP works in terms of complete SIP URIs and the user terminal has to somehow divine that the dialed number is complete I've never used a softphone that doesn't have an explicit Call button. You're telling me that there are terminals where people can just pound SIP URIs in one character at a time, and the call will just decide to initiate at some point?

That is how the normal POTS phone works and there is some expectation that physical SIP VoIP phone would work in same manner. For the VoIP phone the usual implementation is that the hardware SIP phones have configurable regular expression that describes all possible complete numbers and configurable dial timeout. Getting this to work reliably is somewhat intractable problem, while with H.323 or Cisco SCCP phones it just works. For SCCP because the phones are more or less dumb terminals and with H.323 because the signaling protocol is designed with this in mind.

On the other hand desktop phones are today mostly used in office environments, where essentially everybody today enters number first and then does some action that signifies that it is the complete address (pickups handset or enables speakerphone)

Edit: motivational example: suppose that random person pick ups random SIP phone and punches in 1-1-2 (or 9-1-1), then reasonable expectation is that the phone somehow divines, that what the user really means is 112@sip.exapmle.com(or 911@...) and immediately sends the INVITE, getting it to work that way for arbitrary numbers is somewhat nontrivial.

Re: Quindar Tones: the beeps heard in recordings of astronauts in space

#55

Post by kortex »

shmageggy wrote: post #46

When these tones are used in music, it instantly instills a sense of mystery and wonder. I don't know if it's something intrinsic to the sound, or if it's because of the recognizable context of exploration and discovery. One song that comes to mind is Satellite by BT, but I know I've heard it elsewhere too.

I think it's the same reason I tear up uncontrollably watching rocket launches. It's just so epic and bigger than any one human. See also: overwatch effect.

Here's a collection of songs:

"I'm looking for songs that contain NASA radio transmission snippets, or a "space" theme conveyed in a creative manner. Examples in text" https://www.reddit.com/r/trance/comments/1vl39y/im_looking_f...

Re: Quindar Tones: the beeps heard in recordings of astronauts in space

#56

Post by bilekas »

jfengel wrote: post #37
bilekas wrote: post #7

> if NASA wanted to send control signals like transmit on and off, they’d need to run a whole parallel set of wires, which would be expensive. So, they came up with a solution: use the same lines for control signals as well! It really seems that in earlier years, when resources were limited, people really used their ingenuity far better than today. Maybe I have rose tinted glasses, but the level of creativity and cle…

The creativity and cleverness is still there. It's just being applied differently. That kind of insight is very "clean" when it's being applied at the level of bare wires, or to code crammed into tens of bytes. It's harder to see when it's part of a large app or extensive system, but it's still there. Developers today are neither more nor less clever. The solutions they come up with every day are just less broadly ap…

I hear you, thanks too, I like to think we have better tools for the job, and that we do apply it by learning from the past.

So my original OP should be rephrased: Thank god we learnt and are still learning creative ways to make things work.

Re: Quindar Tones: the beeps heard in recordings of astronauts in space

#57

Post by asciimo »

> ...if NASA wanted to send control signals like transmit on and off, they’d need to run a whole parallel set of wires, which would be expensive.

Why not transmit continuously? That seems to be the problem they're solving, but I'm not sure why that would be a problem.

Re: Quindar Tones: the beeps heard in recordings of astronauts in space

#58

Post by natalyarostova »

shmageggy wrote: post #46

When these tones are used in music, it instantly instills a sense of mystery and wonder. I don't know if it's something intrinsic to the sound, or if it's because of the recognizable context of exploration and discovery. One song that comes to mind is Satellite by BT, but I know I've heard it elsewhere too.

Aphex twin #1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6xn0SRFYh4

Re: Quindar Tones: the beeps heard in recordings of astronauts in space

#59

Post by yborg »

shmageggy wrote: post #46

When these tones are used in music, it instantly instills a sense of mystery and wonder. I don't know if it's something intrinsic to the sound, or if it's because of the recognizable context of exploration and discovery. One song that comes to mind is Satellite by BT, but I know I've heard it elsewhere too.

I think these guys agreed with you...

https://youtu.be/9Lt4Z5PYQPM

Re: Quindar Tones: the beeps heard in recordings of astronauts in space

#60

Post by tonyarkles »

shmageggy wrote: post #46

When these tones are used in music, it instantly instills a sense of mystery and wonder. I don't know if it's something intrinsic to the sound, or if it's because of the recognizable context of exploration and discovery. One song that comes to mind is Satellite by BT, but I know I've heard it elsewhere too.

There’s a song that comes up on Spotify once in a while that has, IIRC, clips of John Glenn during the Gemini missions. Chills down my spine.
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