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Actix project postmortem

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Re: Actix project postmortem

#321

Post by jopsen »

CapmCrackaWaka wrote: post #56
thrownaway954 wrote: post #36

I use to do a TON of open source back in the day. i quit cause of the same reason, people suck and feel they are entitled. i couldn't count how many times someone would yell, kick and scream about an issue they were having and demand that i fix it right away (ain't gonna happen dude). i finally got to the point where i told people that i would only participate in pull requests and nothing else. you could still file i…

Maybe it's because I work on more niche projects, but every time someone contacted me about an issue in one of my repos they were always exceedingly apologetic about "bothering me". My projects only have ~400 downloads per month, so I'm sure it's a matter of sample size. If anything, working through issues with the community has made me enjoy the work more.

Yeah, it's important to remember that most of the time people are very nice.

Of course there are "problem kids" out there who screamd about an opinion they disagree with or tries flirt with female contributors on IRC..

Having co-workers, a code of conduct, and a community organizer you can escalate to can help a lot.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#322

Post by strbean »

blub wrote: post #228
logophobia wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, that doesn't mean there wasn't a problem. There was a ton of negativity around "unsafe" when the author first released the code, and it has kind of become a meme at this point. If a project consistently uses code in an unsafe way, is it really worth spending your time vetting it for your production use case? There are plenty of web severs out there, pick one that aligns with your goals. Should people wait…

If personal info or CC data gets leaked, the company which used this library/framework will be found legally liable. Using random code from github is not a valid product development strategy. The author can write their entire code in an unsafe block for all they care. The buck stops with those that use the framework and that is made quite clear in the license.

Welp.

Time to close up shop folks, we didn't personally perform a deep security audit of every single open source project we depend on!

Re: Actix project postmortem

#323

Post by capableweb » 

  THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO
This is part of the MIT license. Many other open source and free software licenses contain the same thing. It's simple, people provide software they write in their free time or "sponsored" by their company, in return they get nothing and you should expect nothing more than the piece of code that gets published.

People have started assuming that free and open source software is not "true" open source if you don't build a community around your project, gain a following and can take advantage in it professionally somehow.

It's a shame, as it puts a lot of pressure on people, instead of all of us just sharing code because we love coding and want to share it with everyone who also loves it.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#324

Post by qwerty456127 »

fenwick67 wrote: post #222
forgottenpass wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value in stoicism is that it lets people transcend limitations they have control over. It's a tool and comes in many packages (e.g.: "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference."). Lots of "people on HN push stoicism" because a great many people in all walks of life share life lessons that can be categorized as stoic. >Not…

Stoicism is fine, I don't have a problem with it, but I have a problem with people chiming in with attitude advice in face of a non-attitude problem. Saying someone should be more stoic, especially with a "like me", in the face of a problem, is like telling somebody "deal with it" or "lighten up". At best it's not constructive, at worst it's bragging and putting someone down. And it deflects the actual problem. The p…

> The problem here was "too many people were jerks" not "you are too sensitive".

So what a solution would you suggest for such a problem? I believe it is more correct to say both are the problems. I have no idea what is possible to do with the jerks themselves but I know it is possible to become immune.

When there is a disease outbreak obviously the problem is the virus but we can't just make it disappear magically so we choose to address it's couple problem - our immunity weakness, we take a vaccine, teach our immune systems to detect the virus, become immune and keep on going.

I have never meant judging the Actix author for "being a pussy", I have proposed the only solution I could come up with.

In fact I have already met some people with alike problems personally, explained them the idea and in some days they thanked me for showing them another perspective which couldn't come to their minds. They didn't know they could just observe the others' behavior (as well as their own feelings) and consciously choose what to feel. Perhaps this might seem like bragging again but I prefer to take a risk of being judged this way for the chance of actually helping at least a portion of people who reads this.

When you have come through some problems successfully and developed a skill necessary, telling about that inevitably sounds like bragging, but IMHO keeping it for yourself (when it could help others) just because of being afraid of being shamed would be selfish.

Your mind is entirely yours, it's the only really private place and you don't have let anybody in to spread chaos there. Trolls want just that and you don't have to obey. It's a magical space free from the limitations of the material world, entirely under your own power, your intention alone is enough to do whatever you want there. If somebody attacks you physically you can't just ignore that, they will damage you anyway. If somebody attacks you verbally you can react by feeling something or nothing at all, all you need is to know you can (and be mindful of what's going on at the moment in the first place), much like Neo in the Matrix.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#325

Post by kjs3 »

teddyh wrote: post #221
telmo wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What the license says and what image the project presents can be very different. Pointing to the license and reasoning that nobody has legally promised anything contractually is not very useful. It is quite useful, because the license is the legal document that comes included with the software, and that specifies what things you agree to if you use the software. And it explicitly specifies that you cannot assume an…

> Open source authors promised us nothing and owe us nothing There is such a thing as an implicit promise. A project which presents itself as active and maintained by a community does implicitly promise a certain level of attention by its maintainers.

There is such a thing as an implicit promise, but it does not trump an an explicit disclaimer of such attention. Which there is in this case. Once again, thanks for demonstrating the entitled attitude that brought this on.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#326

Post by kjs3 »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #273
rumanator wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I understand how he may he feeling, but this is probably the most used web framework for Rust. Not a problem. Just fork it and put in the work to maintain it. The license grants anyonr that right. What stops anyone from doing it? If that's too much to ask then perhaps it should put into perspective how project maintainers are abused.

Ok, but the arrow of time being what it is you cannot fork something usefully after all the code has been taken away. You can now fork the readme and change that. It's true I think everyone should do what I do which is to fork anything I think I might need at some point , but that isn't what you actually suggested and it isn't what the parent comment was observing could be a problem for people.

You bring all this righteous indignation, and didn't actually read the readme where he tells you were the repo has gone in case you want to fork it and assume the responsibility of maintaining it. I think we've reached the perfect intersection of "entitlement" and "laziness".

Re: Actix project postmortem

#327

Post by jackinloadup »

nindalf wrote: post #316
rossjudson wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are confused. The maintainer made an active and conscious decision to protect himself . That's clearly not "nothing", and a perfectly legitimate reason.

They're referring to the maintainer's conscious decision to reject a patch made in good faith, that fixed the issues that had been pointed out. It was rejected with the statement "this is boring." Do you think this behaviour is justifiable? > I think you are confused You sure?

It is if your the one maintaining it. It's not like people are paying the person to accept their patches. If they want their patch applied they can fork the project. The maintainer isn't a slave to others.

Under what obligation does the maintainer NEED to accept any patch? It's his project he built. He can build or destroy his work as he sees fit. If you have an issue fork it. This is how things like libreoffice, mariadb, and countless other projects have come to exist.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#328

Post by ztjio »

capableweb wrote: post #323

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO This is part of the MIT license. Many other open source and free software licenses contain the same thing. It's simple, people provide software they write in their free time or "sponsored" by their company, in return they get nothing and you should expect nothing more than the piece of code that gets publi…

I'm on board with your general message, however, the larger actix isn't some independent project. It is clearly endeavored to build and serve a community. And maybe that wasn't the intent of the author/maintainer? I don't know. But I'm going to tell you right now that if you don't want to be part of a community (for better and worse) the best plan is to not join one, especially not one that proselytizes itself in a way similar to many commercial/oss hybrid outfits.

I don't mean to condone people being jerks or the typical reddit brigading that is being talked about. It's just, it doesn't really matter what your license says. If you act like you're going to serve customers, you just might get some customers and if you can't deal with customers then you probably shouldn't act like you want to serve customers.

It's perfectly fine to build a project in the open and license it openly and not accept open participation.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#329

Post by saagarjha »

rossjudson wrote: post #303
saagarjha wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case, the maintainer made an active and conscious decision to do something that did nothing but hurt everyone using the project. There are no passengers who might benefit here, sadly.

I think you are confused. The maintainer made an active and conscious decision to protect himself . That's clearly not "nothing", and a perfectly legitimate reason.

I think there are a number of ways the maintainer could have protected themselves without making it actively worse for the community. I would even predict that this decision makes them likely to get even more abuse, though of course I would never condone that.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#330

Post by saagarjha »

dunnock wrote: post #256
saagarjha wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This person killed the momentum that this project had, much of which was only partly their work. Forks fracture a project’s community and pit the pieces against each other: occasionally they work out, but often they all just fizzle into nothingness. Keeping a project together has value. (Also, note that associated GitHub metadata such as issues has been wiped.)

What do you mean wiped? It was moved to personal account https://github.com/fafhrd91/actix-web .

I was under the impression that that repository was probably going to be deleted at some point.
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