Pervasive myths about older software developers • Hacker News Board

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#41

Post by silverbax88 » Fri, Feb 11, 2011, 6:31 PM UTC

georgieporgie wrote: post #37

silverbax88 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think perhaps the best way to answer how to stay mentally active with the question, posed to me, that got it through my own head. Start by asking yourself this question: Why do you think that time seems to speed up as we get older? Now stop, and really think about that question. Don't skip ahead. Think of some possible reasons. It's a phenomenon that we all experience. What's the cause? When we are preschool age, t…

> You know that feeling when you drive home and don't remember driving home or > anything along the way? Boom. There you go. Your brain just ignored the trip. That's your brain entering a sleep state, and it's dangerous. Counter this by constantly sweeping your eyes across the road to stay alert. I like everything else you wrote, but as a driver, motorcyclist, bicyclist, and pedestrian, I hate to think that people wo…

Not optimized, ignored. Two completely different things.

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#42

Post by b_emery » Fri, Feb 11, 2011, 7:13 PM UTC

KedarMhaswade wrote: post #28

What we need (to really prove the point of article) is a number of successful software startups where average age is say 38. How many of us (I am turning 40 soon) dare cross the Paul Graham Limit (23-38) on higher side? Looking at the cream of younger software craftsmen (e.g. @github) I feel many older programmers (forget outliers, please) have a mountain to climb.

This could be an interesting addendum to the How Old Are You poll (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2175588).

Personally, I feel like I'm writing the best code of my life, now at 41. Taking on a startup is different animal though.

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#43

Post by Kilimanjaro » Fri, Feb 11, 2011, 7:14 PM UTC

It has nothing to do with age, it is just a spark, I still have it in my eyes, burning as bright and hot as when it all started for me twenty years ago.

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#44

Post by Gibbon » Fri, Feb 11, 2011, 7:45 PM UTC

KedarMhaswade wrote: post #28

What we need (to really prove the point of article) is a number of successful software startups where average age is say 38. How many of us (I am turning 40 soon) dare cross the Paul Graham Limit (23-38) on higher side? Looking at the cream of younger software craftsmen (e.g. @github) I feel many older programmers (forget outliers, please) have a mountain to climb.

Outside the echo chamber of Silicon Valley and the web, the average age of a startup founder IS 38.

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#45

Post by b_emery » Fri, Feb 11, 2011, 8:00 PM UTC

My random assortment of thoughts (subject to revision):

Myths are just that. Some, but not much basis in reality. My experience based suspicion is that skills are weakly correlated with age, but more dependent on total focused-hrs spent.

A key realization for me was that the benefits of 'deeply focused hours spent' are not linear. While older programmers have more chance of achieving level X skills, the highly focused and motivated 16 year old can do great work. Greatness is a function of getting to the edge and pushing it. Age is becoming less relevant, meaning that great work can be done regardless of age (I hope!).

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#46

Post by aaronblohowiak » Fri, Feb 11, 2011, 8:41 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #19

Another "I have witnessed X" so "Y must be true" post. I've been programming commercially for 32 years and in all that time, I have found very little correlation between age and ability to deliver quality software. I have worked with younger, inexperienced, and uneducated programmers who were willing to learn, with minds like sponges and who were a pleasure to work with. They often found or thought of things the rest…

I was right there with you until you mentioned southpaws. I really have little tolerance for that sort of degenerate character. ;)

I think that a persistant dedication to improvement is the elusive common trait among "successful" people and projects.

I agree with you that "code talks," but want to caution people who would be demure that tooting your own horn when you have victories can get you more pull with management when you have proposals of your own -- i've known too many programmers far better than I be ignored by mgmt because they were the "quiet type." Yes, the is a mgmt failure and I have endeavored to proactively "pull out" the opinions of such people on the teams where I have influence, but a light doesn't do as much good when it is under a bushel.

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#47

Post by TheSOB88 » Fri, Feb 11, 2011, 8:49 PM UTC

georgieporgie wrote: post #37

silverbax88 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think perhaps the best way to answer how to stay mentally active with the question, posed to me, that got it through my own head. Start by asking yourself this question: Why do you think that time seems to speed up as we get older? Now stop, and really think about that question. Don't skip ahead. Think of some possible reasons. It's a phenomenon that we all experience. What's the cause? When we are preschool age, t…

> You know that feeling when you drive home and don't remember driving home or > anything along the way? Boom. There you go. Your brain just ignored the trip. That's your brain entering a sleep state, and it's dangerous. Counter this by constantly sweeping your eyes across the road to stay alert. I like everything else you wrote, but as a driver, motorcyclist, bicyclist, and pedestrian, I hate to think that people wo…

I've experienced erasures of memory related to using the bathroom. "Did I flush?" I had. It's not like I wasn't conscious, just that my brain doesn't give a shit. I'm sure he's talking about a similar thing.

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#48

Post by ubermajestix » Fri, Feb 11, 2011, 9:20 PM UTC

I'm a "young gun" (26) without a formal degree in CS. I believe the number of graduates in CS dropping isn't affecting finding talented people. The talented people aren't taking CS and are not even graduating or going to college.

I graduated with a degree in mathematical economics from a liberal arts school and took some CS (Java and C++) along the way, but ended up not pursuing a degree because I could tell the technology being taught was outdated and largely irrelevant. I taught myself Ruby and Ruby on Rails mostly through reading books and blogs while trying to solve a problem for a client I was providing desktop support.

A friend's consulting shop recently hired their 20 year old intern b/c he is a great hacker, and he, in turn, dropped out of a CS program largely recognized as "very good" b/c it was he thought they were basically teaching "solved problems."

The point here is that a good hacker comes at any age, and your technical ability and attitude mater regardless.

I love working with the older guys b/c they have failed, a lot, and can steer me in the right direction and offer wisdom whereas I bring enthusiasm and an open mind.

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#49

Post by pnathan » Fri, Feb 11, 2011, 9:30 PM UTC

georgieporgie wrote: post #37

silverbax88 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think perhaps the best way to answer how to stay mentally active with the question, posed to me, that got it through my own head. Start by asking yourself this question: Why do you think that time seems to speed up as we get older? Now stop, and really think about that question. Don't skip ahead. Think of some possible reasons. It's a phenomenon that we all experience. What's the cause? When we are preschool age, t…

> You know that feeling when you drive home and don't remember driving home or > anything along the way? Boom. There you go. Your brain just ignored the trip. That's your brain entering a sleep state, and it's dangerous. Counter this by constantly sweeping your eyes across the road to stay alert. I like everything else you wrote, but as a driver, motorcyclist, bicyclist, and pedestrian, I hate to think that people wo…

That's not a sleep state. That is a form of disassociation.

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#50

Post by StrawberryFrog » Fri, Feb 11, 2011, 9:35 PM UTC

Inspiring but ... he's trying to refute anecdote with more anecdotes, which can't really go past the point of pointing out that we really don't know what the true situation is. Some data would be more informative. However, individuals are not averages, so these generalisations aren't that useful even when they have data.