An alternative argument for why women leave STEM
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Re: An alternative argument for why women leave STEM
#2[deleted]
Re: An alternative argument for why women leave STEM
#3Nice try, but in $CURRENT_YEAR's rules of engagement, any explanation for gender discrepancy in STEM besides misogyny is itself evidence of misogyny.
Re: An alternative argument for why women leave STEM
#4The fact that women shoulder the primary economic burden of raising children is structural sexism. Sexism is not merely about personal conduct but also how we structure society. For millenia across many cultures women have had their participation in broader society curtailed to the sphere of reproductive and domestic labor. That is injustice. As Morenz notes, we don't have to accept that. We can structure our work so that women are not disadvantaged for having kids and men aren't penalized for taking a greater role in raising them.
This seems like violent agreement. I think Scott was trying to dismiss the people who criticize them by inviting Morenz to make a guest post. Perhaps his dismissiveness is the reason why this is so acrimonious.
Re: An alternative argument for why women leave STEM
#5I find this a bit pointless- Scott Aaronson has his views that are not the
views of a sizeable majority of women in STEM, who find that their career
progression is hindered by institutionalised sexism. At some point Aaronson
finds or receives a dissenting opinion from a woman in STEM. He publishes it,
with a preface suggesting that _this_ is the _real_ view of a majority of
women in STEM (the opinion "dovetails with what I’ve heard from many other
women in STEM fields, including my wife Dana").
Fair enough- but how often has Aaronson published, or publicised, an opinion from a woman who disagrees with his view? Er. Not often. Probably because he disagrees with them and so will tend to find that they do not marshal "data, logic, and [their] own experience in support of an insight that strikes me as true and important and underappreciated".
So what have we learned from the fact that Scott Aaronson has published this opinion on his blog? Absolutely nothing. We knew his opinion, he still has the same opinion. We know there are other people, including women in STEM, that have the same opinion as Scott Aaronson. Here is one of them and her opinion. We have learned nothing new.
This is just preaching to the converted.
Re: An alternative argument for why women leave STEM
#6Judging by what happens most times gender in tech comes up on HN, I’m sure this thread will be buckets of fun.
Re: An alternative argument for why women leave STEM
#7The fact that women shoulder the primary economic burden of raising children is structural sexism. Sexism is not merely about personal conduct but also how we structure society. For millenia across many cultures women have had their participation in broader society curtailed to the sphere of reproductive and domestic labor. That is injustice. As Morenz notes, we don't have to accept that. We can structure our work so…
This assumes that men and women en masse want equal roles in raising children. I'm not convinced that this is the case.
Re: An alternative argument for why women leave STEM
#8I find this a bit pointless- Scott Aaronson has his views that are not the views of a sizeable majority of women in STEM, who find that their career progression is hindered by institutionalised sexism. At some point Aaronson finds or receives a dissenting opinion from a woman in STEM. He publishes it, with a preface suggesting that _this_ is the _real_ view of a majority of women in STEM (the opinion "dovetails with…
See: Ad hominem (Latin for "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, typically refers to a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.
Re: An alternative argument for why women leave STEM
#9The fact that women shoulder the primary economic burden of raising children is structural sexism. Sexism is not merely about personal conduct but also how we structure society. For millenia across many cultures women have had their participation in broader society curtailed to the sphere of reproductive and domestic labor. That is injustice. As Morenz notes, we don't have to accept that. We can structure our work so…
This assumes that men and women en masse want equal roles in raising children. I'm not convinced that this is the case.
What does? I made a few claims.
Re: An alternative argument for why women leave STEM
#10The article is about women in STEM in Academia, not just STEM.
And I don't understand why people absolutely need to have biological children. I think more people should just adopt if they want to raise children.
I also think sexism in the US is the biggest factor for women leaving Academia or not entering STEM. In other countries more than 50% of the researchers are women and 40% of the students studying computer science are women.