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What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

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Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#511

Post by wongarsu »

hardbop200 wrote: post #435
umvi wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another disturbing trend I've seen on Facebook. It's where these moms become "entrepreneurs" but when you dig into what their business actually is, they basically host these paid sessions on how to be an entrepreneur (setting up branding, etc.). As far I can tell, no actual product or value is generated, it's like a "business virus": "I'm an entrepreneur!" "Cool, what does your business do?" "Help people get…

> As far I can tell, no actual product or value is generated, it's like a "business virus" I believe that is what the OP means by MLM (multi-level marketing)

An MLM is a regular pyramid scheme with an actual product mixed in to lend legitimacy and to make it legal in the first place.

The proposed business virus is different. Unlike a pyramid scheme most costs are on signup, and there are no multi-level incentive structures.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#512

Post by danans »

burlesona wrote: post #489
danans wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real problem seems to be that there are so many people in need of “family feeding” jobs who are working for Door Dash etc. instead. All jobs are basically a means for feeding your family, even if that family is just you. Few people work primarily for the fun of it. The people taking the gig jobs to feed their families are often desperate, with few other options. They aren't taking the gig jobs by mistake. And c…

I have to gently disagree with part of what you said. In my life experience there are a lot of jobs that are taken by people who are not looking for what I called “family feeding” work (which I agree includes families of one), but rather for “spending money.” Many high schoolers take jobs that fall into this category: they have parental support and don’t _need_ money, but they want to have some cash for their own ent…

> Many high schoolers take jobs that fall into this category: they have parental support and don’t _need_ money, but they want to have some cash for their own entertainment.

I agree those jobs exist. I had them too. The question is whether we should be setting the rules for the economy and jobs to match that use case or the "family feeding" use case.

> So how can we create more good quality work for people so they just give door dash the finger and move on, rather than feeling trapped in that as the best work they can get.

A federal jobs guarantee, universal healthcare, better and more equal public education; those things will increase the leverage that workers have to give gig employers the finger.

Many of those would let even higher paid tech workers give their employers the finger.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#513

Post by Kalium »

umvi wrote: post #423
mabbo wrote: post #411

Is anyone else starting to get the feeling that "gig economy" is this generation's "multi-level marketing"? People who don't know any better get sold on the "be your own boss, earn what you put in" concept. Reality doesn't match expectations. The people work their asses off and wind up with a lot less money than they expected because costs and actual spent time aren't taken into account. The people they're working fo…

There's another disturbing trend I've seen on Facebook. It's where these moms become "entrepreneurs" but when you dig into what their business actually is, they basically host these paid sessions on how to be an entrepreneur (setting up branding, etc.). As far I can tell, no actual product or value is generated, it's like a "business virus": "I'm an entrepreneur!" "Cool, what does your business do?" "Help people get…

The value, perhaps, is the positivity and empowerment that people feel. People will gloss over a lot of things to feel in control of their lives.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#514

Post by treis »

dsr_ wrote: post #412
swiley wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expected to see something like this here. I had a period where I wasn't doing any class work but didn't have my degree and couldn't get a job because of that. The ability to trade time and tires for some of the extra VC money was kind of awesome honestly and I'd imagine it gives people who are in worse situations options they really need (essentially borrowing against car components.) I know in a few years it will…

The article points out that for many DoorDash workers, they aren't getting paid a positive sum, even if they count their time as worth zero. Look, we have the technical ability to handle millions of people as hourly workers on timescale granularities of seconds. Require these companies to treat their "contractors" as part-time employees being paid minimum wage: start paying them when they accept their first job on da…

>The article points out that for many DoorDash workers, they aren't getting paid a positive sum, even if they count their time as worth zero.

This just doesn't pass the smell test. It's much, much more likely that their method is flawed than it being the case that a bunch of workers pay DoorDash to work for them.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#515

Post by Kalium »

PanosJee wrote: post #235
arcticbull wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean the idea is that you operate at a loss until the economies of scale catch up and you begin being profitable. Starting with the low price let’s you maximize growth, and you make it up on the back end. That’s not a problematic system. What is problematic is if there are no economies of scale.

Economy of scale applies to production think chips & screens. What economy of scale can DoorDash achieve? Persuade everyone to be paid below fair wage? Push the margin of restaurants down?

> What economy of scale can DoorDash achieve?

Brand awareness among both diners and restauranteurs. Integration with POS systems and financial plumbing.

Economies of scale might exist any time you have infrastructure that can be shared.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#516

Post by Reedx »

s_dev wrote: post #260
Reedx wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't know what the waiter's situation is, so how can we presume to know better than they do? Are you sure the people who are choosing to work for these services would agree? Secondly, you have the option of giving a nice tip. I suspect they'd prefer that over not renting their Airbnb or whatever service they're offering.

>Secondly, you have the option of giving a nice tip. DoorDash is litterally taking the tips left for the staff though ...

It's gross how they're handling tips.

Give cash instead as long as this is the case.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#517

Post by amanaplanacanal »

BelleOfTheBall wrote: post #347
sschueller wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can, stop using and supporting these predatory companies. Never use Uber, Lyft, Doordash, Uber Eats, AirBnB etc. No exception irregardless how easy or cheap it may be. It's a small sacrifice but can and will make a difference. Using these services to me is like asking a waiter to pay for part of my meal. When it comes around to paying the bill are you able to face someone and ask them to pay for part of what they…

Out of curiosity, are there any more ethical alternatives to AirBnB? My partner travels a lot for work and doesn't like staying in hotels. He's fine with staying in rooms vs. whole apartments (which seems to be the biggest strike on AirBnB's model) but it's pretty tough to dig up credible renters for each place he visits. Is there a Craigslist-like option or are hotels the best bet if we decide to drop AirBnB?

I believe VRBO is a similar service. I haven’t used them. Can’t speak to the ethics question either.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#518

Post by ZainRiz »

dsr_ wrote: post #477
swiley wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll agree you absolutely have to watch what you're doing and count miles and whatnot, but having the option is a powerful thing (even when you're making negative money) and I wonder if regulating it too aggressively might take that away.

I am 100% ok with using regulation to take away the ability to earn negative money.

I have 0% trust in regulators ability to do this without doing more harm to workers than good

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#519

Post by pyrale »

eigenvalue wrote: post #474
leppr wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the market isn't efficient, and the middlemen (Uber, DoorDash, ...) are getting an outsized share of the revenue relative to their only essential contribution which is (automated) organization. They are only able to command that percentage because regulations filter out potential smaller undercutting competitors. That's also why they fail in "developing" countries with more relaxed policing. Not becaus…

If they really aren't adding enough value relative to what they extract, then they are opening up a competitive weakness that eventually should be exploited by a new entrant in the marketplace. Right now, the whole area is being opened up by these intermediaries, which are spending enormous amounts on marketing/advertising/promotion to increase customer awareness of the offering and to establish relationships with re…

Or they will die without replacement after having consumed existing capital (drivers' cars, vc money, consumers' ability to buy).

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#520

Post by ZainRiz »

> Our analysis of more than two hundred samples of pay data provided by DoorDash workers across the country finds that DoorDash pays the average worker an astonishingly low $1.45/hour

Key words being "provided by Doordash workers". Meaning at all of this "analysis" is based on the numbers being given by the most disgruntled workers who presumably make the least. This makes all their conclusions highly suspect.

And if these disgruntled employees are aware that they're getting such a raw deal from Doordash, I'm wondering what stops them from going to a different company like Uber or Lyft instead. Those reportedly let people earn about $25 per hour (before expenses I think).

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