I enrolled in a management training course through work and the first thing they had us do was take a personality test and then they sent us a grading on the "personality color wheel" and it ruined the whole course for me. I'm digging deep to pull out useful nuggets of truth but any time it goes back to Myers-Briggs stuff my brain shuts down.
How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
321–330 of 340 posts
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#322> · Red: dominant, driven, solution focussed. > · Blue: analytic, careful, meticulous > · Green: patient, considerate, nice > · Yellow: extroverted, creative, verbal Damn. I spent so much of my time and energy pushing back exactly on this bullshit when I was young. That's part of the curriculum of mandatory courses I had to take during an apprenticeship in Switzerland. Expensive and mandatory courses paid by students…
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Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
> he only brings more welcome publicity for the author and his books. That‘s obviously not true. Spreading the information that the books were written by a person who is falsely claiming his qualifications and that the premises of the book have no scientific confirmation is surely not supporting their acceptance.
>books were written by a person who is falsely claiming his qualifications You seem to be simultaneously agreeing and disagreeing. I refer you to the points, made in your previous post; there are NO educational and professional qualifications, scientific grounds or any legal regulations required to write these books or conduct personality analysis, none whatsoever!
> there are NO educational and professional qualifications, scientific grounds or any legal regulations required to write these books
If some activity is not legally regulated it still doesn‘t mean that uneducated person doing it should be tolerated as he presents himself as an expert.
The media which didn’t check these facts are also to be blamed and shamed.
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, aspirants pattern-match from success and make tweaks they deem essential to their goals. That‘s the history of human endeavor. Already you see female software engineering hiring growing in priority in the companies that are struggling with hiring.
Doesn't the existence of women lead teams and initiatives throughout the history of the discipline of computer science suggest that you're deliberately ignoring lots of examples and distorting your filter based on ideological motivations? It sure looks that way from here.
No, women are certainly capable of great software engineering the same way that men named Steve are capable of being great football players (Steve Young, Steve Largent). But since it’s clearly possible to build great software without many women, and win Super Bowls without Steve’s, If I’m a football coach I’m not going to start a Steve Initiative where I recruit players named Steve.
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#325Earlier quoted context omitted.
>books were written by a person who is falsely claiming his qualifications You seem to be simultaneously agreeing and disagreeing. I refer you to the points, made in your previous post; there are NO educational and professional qualifications, scientific grounds or any legal regulations required to write these books or conduct personality analysis, none whatsoever!
> there are NO educational and professional qualifications, scientific grounds or any legal regulations required to write these books If some activity is not legally regulated it still doesn‘t mean that uneducated person doing it should be tolerated as he presents himself as an expert. The media which didn’t check these facts are also to be blamed and shamed.
I feel you are being unnecessarily obtuse. I have expressed my opinion based entirely on the article, but on each occasion, you completely disregard the presented facts, demonstrate your displeasure and produce a reply within a context that does not exist nor does it reflect my views.
We have arrived at a point, which is mirroring the predicament of the person in question, so I must respectfully decline to enter into any further debate on this particular topic.
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
> there are NO educational and professional qualifications, scientific grounds or any legal regulations required to write these books If some activity is not legally regulated it still doesn‘t mean that uneducated person doing it should be tolerated as he presents himself as an expert. The media which didn’t check these facts are also to be blamed and shamed.
I feel you are being unnecessarily obtuse. I have expressed my opinion based entirely on the article, but on each occasion, you completely disregard the presented facts, demonstrate your displeasure and produce a reply within a context that does not exist nor does it reflect my views. We have arrived at a point, which is mirroring the predicament of the person in question, so I must respectfully decline to enter into…
> I feel you are being unnecessarily obtuse.
> you completely disregard the presented facts
No. If the "fact" is that he can't go to jail or pay a fine in Sweden because he falsely presents himself as an expert, it doesn't mean anybody should support him, or doubt the real expert writing about that.
And I still don't understand what's the intention behind your activity here which includes you being rude.
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have never encountered anyone who claimed either of the above. The test results indicate a spectrum on each axis. Horoscopes are useful to people otherwise inclined to get stuck in a rut. Likewise, the I Ching. You don't need to believe either one for it to be useful. Not believing is an intelligent response, but not everybody is so equipped. Intelligent people get stuck in ruts, too.
Well you are the first proponent of the MBTI I've encountered who has disagreed with those two statements. We clearly have very different experiences. When I took the MBTI in secondary school, it was stressed that the specific point was to discover which of the 16 types you were, and that knowing which type you were would be helpful in life.
That is sad. Maybe criminally negligent, for the school. I slotted, initially, neatly into "architect", but I saw all the other slots as other ways to be, and to explore being.
As ("even") Heinlein said, specialization is for insects.
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
It has always struck me as odd when somebody insists Myers-Briggs has been "debunked". It asks a lot of questions about what amount to boundaries of your comfort zone. Of course as we age that zone changes, ideally, but sadly not always, by expanding. Naming various borders of your comfort zone is useful if you want to push them back. If M-B has a failing, it is that its advocates never seem to suggest that being dea…
"Debunked" is probably overstating it, but Myers-Briggs has been shown to have fairly significant statistical deficiencies and its predictive claims are largely pseudoscientific. It's not complete garbage, but there are personality trait models like Big Five and HEXACO that are more robust and have more research behind them, but even those are not as strong predictors as pop management literature makes them out to be…
I never considered it to have any predictive meaning at all, so saying it doesn't seems to miss the whole point.
Predicting others' behavior on the basis of a generic quiz is a pretty silly expectation.
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
Doesn't the existence of women lead teams and initiatives throughout the history of the discipline of computer science suggest that you're deliberately ignoring lots of examples and distorting your filter based on ideological motivations? It sure looks that way from here.
No, women are certainly capable of great software engineering the same way that men named Steve are capable of being great football players (Steve Young, Steve Largent). But since it’s clearly possible to build great software without many women, and win Super Bowls without Steve’s, If I’m a football coach I’m not going to start a Steve Initiative where I recruit players named Steve.
... wait. Didn't you just argue against broad pattern matching and then use logic that supported it?
Given your reasoning, why shouldn't someone note the plethora of successful Steve's and say, "Our team needs more Steves! Look at my pattern matching! Steves work!"
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
Neuro-Linguistic Programming is related to General Semantics, which was developed by Alfred Korzybski. General Semantics isn't bullshit like NLP is, but it does have some useful insights. For example, General Semantics says that the map is not the territory, which isn't the most absolutely ground-breaking thing in the world but is helpful to keep in mind, whereas Neuro-Linguistic Programming might as well be "NLP: La…
>General Semantics isn't bullshit like NLP is Uh.. did you read Science and Sanity ?![2] It's absolutely BS. Korzybski thought "is" should be eliminated. When you say "The car is red", there are many things the car 'is' besides red, so this is a lie. (No, really!) Thus a language without 'is' would be better.[1] He saw and wrote of himself as an Aristotle-scale genius. Science and Sanity has a couple of ideas: "map i…
You sound like you need to take a "cortico-thalamic pause"...
https://www.quora.com/How-does-one-perform-a-cortico-thalami...