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DigitalOcean is laying off staff

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Re: DigitalOcean is laying off staff

#51
post #31

(Throwaway, obviously) I'm a DO employee on the tech side of the house. According to the CTO, the primary reason for this was actually reorg, not financial though that obviously played a part. Mostly managers got cut, with the goal of flattening the org. I'm keeping my ear to the ground but it doesn't seem like there's going to be more cuts any time soon at least. Apparently we're still hiring a ton this year, so tha…

no offense but I wouldn't take your CTO's word at face value. you need to watch out for your own interest, including looking at other opportunities, even if it's just to keep yourself top of mind to others if something happens

Yup, I was laid off from my company a week ago, and they just chopped another 25 heads this morning.

Re: DigitalOcean is laying off staff

#52
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no offense but I wouldn't take your CTO's word at face value. you need to watch out for your own interest, including looking at other opportunities, even if it's just to keep yourself top of mind to others if something happens

Agreed fully. I always have an escape strategy in mind if things go south, but I'm pretty bullish on DO right now. That could always change, certainly.

curious what makes you bullish?

i'm a total outsider but it does feel like the walls are closing around smaller players as the big get bigger.

Re: DigitalOcean is laying off staff

#54
Digital Ocean is a great company in a brutal, low-margin industry. Based on having run a similar (now mostly defunct) company in the past, I would guess that 80% of their customers are on the $5/mo plan.

That $5/mo has to cover the hardware costs: you're buying expensive physical servers to put the VPSes on, and lots of SSDs too. SSDs have a limited lifetime measured in writes, and some of your customers will leave broken programs running that chew through this precious resource for no reason. If you throttle them, they'll complain.

Then there's the support. Handling a support ticket costs you at least $3 in salary and benefits (remember, your typical customer pays $5/mo), and people will demand that you help them fix their broken MySQL server or whatever. They'll yell and threaten when you tell them that this is outside the scope of what you can do.

And don't forget security. Your customers will install broken-ass Wordpress sites and forget to upgrade them for 5 years. Then a worm sweeps through and now a whole bunch of them have been pwned and are mining cryptocurrency. Those pwned customers are complaining and demanding that you fix it, and the regular customers are also upset because of slowness due to the "noisy neighbor" problem inherent to all VPSes.

Speaking of which, preventing one VPS from hogging all the CPU or disk bandwidth is harder than it looks. The two dominant software platforms are Xen and KVM, and neither gives you great tools for dealing with disk bandwidth. Limiting CPU is much easier, but there's still the problem that you're overselling. Which is fine until half the VPSes on your machine are trying to mine Ethereum.

On the bright side: half your customers will buy the VPS, leave it running, and forget about it for years at a time. That's what makes the $5/mo business model work out.

Anyway, I do hope they can become profitable! They run a much better operation than the incumbents they replaced (slicehost, etc).

Re: DigitalOcean is laying off staff

#55
I'm rooting for them as one of the best potential guardians against the cloud provider market becoming even more of an oligopoly.

Cloud resources should be a commodity. Providers should offer compute resources, persistent storage, load balancers, and MAYBE a small handful of other services.

The way Digital Ocean succeeds against AWS is by aligning itself with this idea, and competing on specialization. Forget competing with lambda; let me run my own serverless application. Don't worry about IAM; let me configure LDAP. Don't waste developer hours on service-ifying the latest NoSQL storage trend; write high-quality tutorials explaining how users can do it themselves.

And most importantly, continue to invest into open source and community resources. There are developers willing to fight the good fight against proprietary walled gardens like AWS/GCP/Azure, but it has to get easier. Configuring HA postgres is harder than paying for RDS. Paying for GKE is more feature complete than using rancher or kubeadm to make my own kubernetes cluster. This friction is an existential threat when Azure can make my problems go away for cash.

I don't know if Digital Ocean can succeed against the big cloud providers, but if they do it won't be because they made a better platform; it'll be by playing a totally different game.

Re: DigitalOcean is laying off staff

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know how any 600 person cloud company survives in the same world as AWS these days. They aren’t competing in the same space

They most certainly are, especially given the managed products DO has introduced recently (object storage, DB, Kubernetes, and load balancer). They definitely want a slice of Amazon's pie.

DO is still far from being a “premium” provider. Sure they’re starting to offer a subset of AWS services, but if you compare their prices, they aren’t aiming for the same type of costumers.

Easiest way to compare is bandwidth costs: AWS/Azure/Google Cloud charge around $0.05/GB at their cheapest prices. DigitalOcean/Linode/Vultr charge around $0.005/GB (and it comes with a VPS bundled).

If you’re doing anything bandwidth intensive (several PB a month), one is viable, the other is not

Re: DigitalOcean is laying off staff

#58
post #54

Digital Ocean is a great company in a brutal, low-margin industry. Based on having run a similar (now mostly defunct) company in the past, I would guess that 80% of their customers are on the $5/mo plan. That $5/mo has to cover the hardware costs: you're buying expensive physical servers to put the VPSes on, and lots of SSDs too. SSDs have a limited lifetime measured in writes, and some of your customers will leave b…

Cloud hosting is not low margin.

But DO cannot have the monopoly margin enjoyed by AWS and alike.

One example, the hardware cost for AWS probably will be significantly cheaper than DO. That alone can sentence Do to death.

And frankly, DO is better at UX, its technology is not innovative in any measure. By definition, that's a death penalty to a firm of its size.

Re: DigitalOcean is laying off staff

#59
post #55

I'm rooting for them as one of the best potential guardians against the cloud provider market becoming even more of an oligopoly. Cloud resources should be a commodity. Providers should offer compute resources, persistent storage, load balancers, and MAYBE a small handful of other services. The way Digital Ocean succeeds against AWS is by aligning itself with this idea, and competing on specialization. Forget competi…

I think they would benefit a lot from adding a thin Heroku-like PaaS layer while keeping the option to "build from scratch".

Re: DigitalOcean is laying off staff

#60
post #12
post #2

This sucks. I really want DO to succeed because I love their offerings - whereas I occasionally feel like I really do need to RTFM in depth for many AWS offerings (even EC2), DO seemed to just work. That being said, and I can’t put my finger on why necessarily, it sometimes feels a bit like Heroku - the thing you use before you “graduate” to just using one of the major cloud providers.

It's funny—my experience is pretty much opposite. At a certain scale AWS will provide really world-class support beyond just troubleshooting. DO forwards you to (granted, fairly in-depth) documentation an expects you to read it and engineer your own solutions.

As an on-and-off DO customer learning how to use Linux I find the documentation they've creates (payed ICs to create, I think) extremely useful and consistently of decent quality. When I see them in a Google search for an issue I'm always excited.
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