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Pervasive myths about older software developers

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31–40 of 73 posts

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#31
post #11

The thing is, when you're older, there's really no way to reach the younger generation. They aren't listening to you because you're older, for the most part, and they've been listening to their "out of touch" parents their whole lives. They won't understand until their your age, and then they'll have to deal with another younger generation. This isn't a criticism of anyone, just my obeservation about why there is a g…

I don't think that's completely true. The youth idolise Neil deGrasse Tyson, Sagan etc. You just need to match their energy level and enthusiasm. I'd think it's irrelevant what age you are if your eyes sparkle with the mention of a relevant technology.

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#32

The one point of contention I have with the article is about older programmers 'thinking more slowly'. This is again reiterated in the comments below the article. This is not true, we actually learn faster as we get older as long as we stay mentally active. In other words, we 'learn how to learn'. There are things that I can grasp now so easily that eluded me when I was 20. If you can't think faster and learn easier…

This is a very good point. 'Thinking more slowly' isn't a problem in any other field.

I think that in software development, a lot of the time, 'thinking more slowly' with age is actually thinking more carefully. You have more experience, therefore you have a larger knowledge base; so of course it takes longer to query. It also means that you get better answers, rather than the first answer that pops into your head. At 26, for me to get the same type of results, I imagine that I might have to do some research.

Do you have any examples of what you do to stay mentally active? It also seems important to keep physically active (from my experience with older guys, the ones who are thinking best are typically in the best physical condition).

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#33
post #16

I totally agree with most points.. it's really more of a mentality thing than an age thing. The only part I don't totally agree is the commitment part. It's hard to deny that you have much more free time at 20 years old than at 40. I mean, I'm ~25 and I feel I don't have enough time to do and learn everything I want.. I can't imagine that I'll have any more time with children.

Not everyone in their 40s have children. And some of those who do have seen them off to college.

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#34
post #11

The thing is, when you're older, there's really no way to reach the younger generation. They aren't listening to you because you're older, for the most part, and they've been listening to their "out of touch" parents their whole lives. They won't understand until their your age, and then they'll have to deal with another younger generation. This isn't a criticism of anyone, just my obeservation about why there is a g…

Isn't this kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy type situation.

Older workers aren't relevant because the younger generation won't listen to them.

The younger generation won't listen to older workers because older workers aren't relevant.

I work with two older guys and its great. They've got all of the domain knowledge and I can just bounce ideas off of them. They can tell me 'we don't really need that', 'that won't work because xyz' or 'we already tried that and it didn't work because xyz'. It has saved me a ton of pain multiple times.

The big deal is the domain knowledge however. Most companies just aren't willing to pay enough to keep domain expert software engineers around.

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#35
post #17

From anecdotal evidence I will put forward another theory. Because CS and programming are relatively new and rapidly growing fields a large number of programmers in the early years were random office workers who could type, press ganged into development duties. Education started to catch up in the 80s and 90s so young kids with a real grounding in fundamentals were coming into organizations staffed with older develop…

I can't comment about middle America banking, but this was definitely NOT the case in Silicon Valley. People who became programmers were extremely bright and a very diverse lot. A significant number were accomplished musicians. A lot from mathematics and engineering. I even worked with a guy who dropped out of physics because programming was personally more rewarding than being yet another post-doc at Fermi Lab. My associates didnt learn CS, they invented it. (OK a bit of hyperbole there, but that was what the times were like.)

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#36
post #32

The one point of contention I have with the article is about older programmers 'thinking more slowly'. This is again reiterated in the comments below the article. This is not true, we actually learn faster as we get older as long as we stay mentally active. In other words, we 'learn how to learn'. There are things that I can grasp now so easily that eluded me when I was 20. If you can't think faster and learn easier…

This is a very good point. 'Thinking more slowly' isn't a problem in any other field. I think that in software development, a lot of the time, 'thinking more slowly' with age is actually thinking more carefully. You have more experience, therefore you have a larger knowledge base; so of course it takes longer to query. It also means that you get better answers, rather than the first answer that pops into your head. A…

I think perhaps the best way to answer how to stay mentally active with the question, posed to me, that got it through my own head.

Start by asking yourself this question:

Why do you think that time seems to speed up as we get older?

Now stop, and really think about that question. Don't skip ahead. Think of some possible reasons. It's a phenomenon that we all experience. What's the cause?

When we are preschool age, time seems to last forever. As we get older, the years start rolling by more quickly and I've been told by more than one person in their 70's that it never slows down, it only speeds up.

Why?

The answer is actually that we've 'been there, done that'.

When we are young, EVERYTHING is new. When we are experiencing something new, time seems to slow down, especially because we are enjoying it and taking in so much.

As we get older, our brains start to filter out what we have seen before. You know that feeling when you drive home and don't remember driving home or anything along the way? Boom. There you go. Your brain just ignored the trip.

Have you ever gone on a three day trip to some new place and felt like your were gone for two months? It's only three days, right?

Well, what you effectively do when you experience new things, you slow things down again. Your mind stays active, and here's the kicker...your brain actually figures out better, more efficient ways to move information around the synapses in your grey matter. No, that's not 'mumbo jumbo'. The reverse is also true, which is why once someone experiences depression, they are always susceptible to it. The brain learns the path to certain behavior.

This is why confidence mantras work. Want to make your mind more powerful every year from here on?

Try new things.

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#37
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very good point. 'Thinking more slowly' isn't a problem in any other field. I think that in software development, a lot of the time, 'thinking more slowly' with age is actually thinking more carefully. You have more experience, therefore you have a larger knowledge base; so of course it takes longer to query. It also means that you get better answers, rather than the first answer that pops into your head. A…

I think perhaps the best way to answer how to stay mentally active with the question, posed to me, that got it through my own head. Start by asking yourself this question: Why do you think that time seems to speed up as we get older? Now stop, and really think about that question. Don't skip ahead. Think of some possible reasons. It's a phenomenon that we all experience. What's the cause? When we are preschool age, t…

> You know that feeling when you drive home and don't remember driving home or > anything along the way? Boom. There you go. Your brain just ignored the trip.

That's your brain entering a sleep state, and it's dangerous. Counter this by constantly sweeping your eyes across the road to stay alert.

I like everything else you wrote, but as a driver, motorcyclist, bicyclist, and pedestrian, I hate to think that people would view "no memory of my commute" as "my brain optimized it!"

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#38
post #10
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downvoted? As an old guy it's the first thing I thought when I read the article.

It is an uninsightful thought at best and an ad personam argument at worst.

Lets look to the article itself for 'uninsightful'?

'5 Pervasive myths' indeed - the article actually supports all five, and all five are in fact true.

  - old guy

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#39
post #17

From anecdotal evidence I will put forward another theory. Because CS and programming are relatively new and rapidly growing fields a large number of programmers in the early years were random office workers who could type, press ganged into development duties. Education started to catch up in the 80s and 90s so young kids with a real grounding in fundamentals were coming into organizations staffed with older develop…

I agree and commented as much on the thread. People started playing with these things in the 1950s, 1960s etc but the market for software developers really started in the 70s, 80s, 90s, so you saw a disproportionate amount of younger developers in this field.

Just like with radio in the early 1900s and other new industries. With time that bulk of age averages out to other industries. Development is an important role in all that we do now, why would only 20yr olds be doing it.

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#40
post #19

Another "I have witnessed X" so "Y must be true" post. I've been programming commercially for 32 years and in all that time, I have found very little correlation between age and ability to deliver quality software. I have worked with younger, inexperienced, and uneducated programmers who were willing to learn, with minds like sponges and who were a pleasure to work with. They often found or thought of things the rest…

*note: I might be biased personally since I am only 3 years out of college from my master degree

From experience working at a corporation, about 80% of the younger programmers I have met are great but only about 30% of the older ones I have met are of the same skill level or dedication.

The reason for this is probably varied, but there are reasons certain stereotypes exists. It might be politically correct to say otherwise.

I don't think out of school, I became a much better programmer in my years of work, however I acquired a lot of professional skills in communication and leadership. (and a large increase in salary) People should be aware that's what they are paying for in a older programmer and not better programming.

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