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The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

americanaffairsjournal.org

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Re: The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

#271

Post by knolax »

shard wrote: post #252
knolax wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually count English spelling as a strength and not a weakness, otherwise we'd have the situation of multiple semantically distinct and unrelated words being spelled the same[0] while at the same time having to maintain distinct orthographies for every minor dialect[1]. [0] https://ko.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EC%88%98%EB%8F%84_(%EB%8F%9... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North%E2%80%93South_differen...

English is also unable to avoid the issue of having multiple semantically distinct and unrelated words being spelled the same, for example "stock" or "light" or "scale". I don't know enough about languages to say which ones have avoided this issue. Regarding your second point about not having to maintain distinct orthographies, could you explain in more detail how English avoids that?

> English is also unable to avoid the issue of having multiple semantically distinct and unrelated words being spelled the same, for example "stock" or "light" or "scale".

Fair point.

> Regarding your second point about not having to maintain distinct orthographies, could you explain in more detail how English avoids that?

I'm not an expert on phonics but from what I've seen from attempts at writing any language phonetically regular is that in order to achieve phonetic regularity for everyone you either have to force everyone to pronounce words identically (impossible for a language as widely used as English) or you have to maintain entirely seperate spelling systems for each dialect. This number goes up the more phonetically regular your writing system is. See this example in the wikipedia entry on the Shavian script, a phonetically regular alphabet for English[0]:

> Spelling in Androcles follows the phonemic distinctions of British Received Pronunciation except for explicitly indicating vocalic "r" with the above ligatures. Most dialectical variations of English pronunciation can be regularly produced from this spelling, but those who do not make certain distinctions, particularly in the vowels, find it difficult to produce the canonical spellings spontaneously. For instance, most North American dialects merge 𐑭 /ɑː/ and 𐑪 /ɒ/ (the father–bother merger). Canadian English, as well as many American dialects (particularly in the west and near the Canada–US border), also merge these phonemes with 𐑷 /ɔː/, which is known as the cot–caught merger. In addition, some American dialects merge 𐑧 /ɛ/ and 𐑦 /ɪ/ before nasal stops (the pin–pen merger).

With exceptions, the mapping of letters to language in English mostly seems to occur at the level of morphemes and not phonemes. Look at this wiktionary entry for "schedule" for example[0]. All dialects spell it the same but there are multiple distinct pronounciations listed in the IPA section that would all lead to different spellings in a completely phonetically regular system.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shavian_alphabet

[1] https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/schedule

>(UK) IPA(key): /ˈʃɛ.djuːl/, /ˈʃɛ.dʒuːl/, /ˈskɛ.djuːl/, /ˈskɛ.dʒuːl/

>(US) IPA(key): /ˈskɛ.dʒʊl/, /ˈskɛ.dʒəl/, /ˈskɛ.dʒu.əl/, /ˈskɛ.dʒul/

>(India) IPA(key): /ʃɛ.djuːl/

>(Canada) IPA(key): /ˈskɛ.dʒu.əl/, /ˈskɛ.dʒuːl/, /ˈʃɛ.dʒu.əl/, /ˈʃɛ.dʒuːl/

Re: The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

#272

Post by blhack »

mrr54 wrote: post #154
blhack wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do this. I have a really difficult time turning my mind off in silence. If it’s dark and quiet, my mind is working. Listening to old TV shows like TNG helps distract me enough to fall asleep.

This sounds to me like someone saying "I have a pebble in my shoe so I hop everywhere on one foot" when they should probably just take the pebble out of their shoe. Have you tried avoiding screens for a couple of hours before bed, and reading books instead? I had the same problem - found it difficult to get to sleep - and I have experienced MUCH better sleep since moving my last hour or two before sleep to some light…

>Have you tried avoiding screens for a couple of hours before bed, and reading books instead?

Yes of course I've "tried" that, although I think this sortof incorrectly frames what I'm talking about as a problem. I don't find listening to star trek while I fall asleep as a problem. If I read before going to bed I will just stay up all night long reading. Activating my mind by reading a book seems like the opposite of what I'm looking to accomplish here.

Re: The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

#273

Post by nickbauman »

wisty wrote: post #176
8bitsrule wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Educators refer to this as the 'Factory model of education'. Imported from Northern Europe in the late 1800s with heavy influence from industrial Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_model_school In the case of such schools (for the unwashed masses, of course), the medium is definitely the message. Uptight. Neat rows of assigned seating in non-nonsense, screwed-down desks with steel frames and hardwood…

As Wikipedia notes, this is kind of just a myth - http://hackeducation.com/2015/04/25/factory-model

The division chair of the school of education at my niece's alma mater, Augsburg University, fully believes in the factory model of education. My niece almost switched majors over it.

Re: The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

#274

Post by dwild »

plughs wrote: post #8

Our elementary school uses chromebooks from 1st grade on, and I do see a lot of downsides. The most outrageous problem, IMO, is that there are 'modules' that must be completed, and kids with computer access at home can work on them at home. Kids from low income families are screwed over - again. Other problems - spellcheck is always on, why learn real spelling when the computer fixes it for you? - The de-emphasis on…

> The videos are more about funny jokes than the different phases of matter.

I learn so much better when I'm interested in what I learn, making it funny can be a good way to learn it.

> I don't want to have to sit next to them all night making sure that they are only doing 'productive' work.

Can you explain that one a bit more? Do you expect your kid to always do productive work? Is being productive is all you think matters in life?

Re: The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

#275

Post by dwild »

vonseel wrote: post #231
plughs wrote: post #8

Our elementary school uses chromebooks from 1st grade on, and I do see a lot of downsides. The most outrageous problem, IMO, is that there are 'modules' that must be completed, and kids with computer access at home can work on them at home. Kids from low income families are screwed over - again. Other problems - spellcheck is always on, why learn real spelling when the computer fixes it for you? - The de-emphasis on…

- spellcheck is always on, why learn real spelling when the computer fixes it for you? I wonder if over time you absorb the information anyways. Also, spell-check telling you there's an error isn't the same as automatically fixing the errors and hiding that there was ever an issue... so I think the right click/see list of likely words / pick one is still a learning process. - The de-emphasis on handwriting is mention…

> Also, spell-check telling you there's an error isn't the same as automatically fixing the errors and hiding that there was ever an issue... so I think the right click/see list of likely words / pick one is still a learning process.

Here in Quebec we got a spellcheck that I sadly only learned about after high school (though it still helped me so much) called Antidote. They not only tell you what's wrong, but also why it's wrong and trick to avoid that mistake. It's in French though, they do have an English version, but I'm not sure if it's as good. It's spell checking is also much better than the one from Word (though again, French may be the issue here)

Re: The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

#276

Post by dwild »

dijit wrote: post #238
vonseel wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- spellcheck is always on, why learn real spelling when the computer fixes it for you? I wonder if over time you absorb the information anyways. Also, spell-check telling you there's an error isn't the same as automatically fixing the errors and hiding that there was ever an issue... so I think the right click/see list of likely words / pick one is still a learning process. - The de-emphasis on handwriting is mention…

spellcheck can't fix things like "their" and "there", many people autocorrect/spellcheck the wrong word in.

It certainly can, either by detecting the sentence structure, or even more simply, by tagging them all as warning. You then go over them one by one and it can remind you of the difference and ask you whether you used the right one.

Re: The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

#277

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #260
shard wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, I always pronounced "ghoti" like "Gotti".

Slight difference in vowel, otherwise the same, that's valid enough. English isn't great at telling you the exact vowel, probably because people keep making them shift.

English is spoken with such a wide variety of accents that you can just about get away with using random vowels sounds and still be understood.

Re: The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

#278

Post by war1025 »

duxup wrote: post #50
sitkack wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have had Apple II in the class room from what the mid 80s? It is not early stages.

One computer in a room is dramatically different than today.

I graduated high school in 2007. My entire K-12, we would occasionally go to the computer lab to do things. The lab had enough computers for everyone in the class to use one.

Granted, that's a lot different from each student having a computer in class all the time.

I think the school did actually buy a cart of portable laptops that teachers could check out for doing assignments in class. Mostly I found it to be unproductive. Then again, I found a lot of teaching techniques to be unproductive.

Re: The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

#279

Post by bokchoi »

chewxy wrote: post #134
steverb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, and having been the volunteer runner of my kid's middle school computer clubs (and occasional stand-in teacher) I think the best way to teach computing is not with computers, but with pencil, paper and classroom simulations. We've successfully implemented some very simple computers by letting various class members stand in for components, and we had one very good implementation of TCP/IP over middleschooler.

Simon Peyton Jones gave a very good talk on this at Strange Loop 2018 - sadly it's falling to deaf ears

https://thestrangeloop.com/2018/shaping-our-childrens-educat...

Re: The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

#280

Post by filoleg »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #270
filoleg wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Anecdotally, the main predictor of how good someone’s spelling will be is how much reading they have done. Agreed, but it doesn't just have to be books. My personal example: in my native language, I read tons of books as a child, which was what gave me a strong edge when it comes to spelling/grammar. I got into learning english in my late teens, and, by that time, I wasn't as much into reading long-form books as I w…

Yeah, and I prefer the (good, "adult") Russian translation of the Lord of the Rings to the original too! :P

Wait, there was something special about the Russian translation of LotR? I totally missed it then, because that's how I read LotR as a kid (translated Russian version), and I have never re-visited the book since then, as I was not a big fan of the movies (which, I know, is almost a sacrilegious thing to admit, given the reactions I've received for saying it irl).
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