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Actix project postmortem

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Re: Actix project postmortem

#101

Post by Touche »

tiku wrote: post #61
tsukurimashou wrote: post #11

"Ok... So that was unprofessional. If you don't want to maintain a project anymore, you give it to someone else and link to that repo in your README. This just screwed me over big time." https://github.com/actix/actix-web/issues/1#issuecomment-575... These kind of entitled attitude is probably exactly why the guy just removed everything. More details / discussion here: https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/epszt7/ac…

Once it's public and people depend on it you can't retract it like that. His goal was to make his work public, not private.

You can retract it. He just did it. You can take down any webpage under your control. I could delete this comment later if I like. You could delete yours. etc.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#103

Post by dangerface »

j-pb wrote: post #37
tsukurimashou wrote: post #11

"Ok... So that was unprofessional. If you don't want to maintain a project anymore, you give it to someone else and link to that repo in your README. This just screwed me over big time." https://github.com/actix/actix-web/issues/1#issuecomment-575... These kind of entitled attitude is probably exactly why the guy just removed everything. More details / discussion here: https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/epszt7/ac…

In open source you give and take. The actix author almost certainly (unless they deploy their own kernel) has profited immensely from other peoples work. This is because as a community we have realized that we don't sell libraries, we sell stuff build with them, so we all win when we share. It is your choice to use open source software without open sourcing your own work or without contributing. But by engaging in op…

> has profited immensely from other peoples work

Have they? how much $$$ profit did they make?

You aren't paying for shit and yet you think they are making a profit and you are entitled to professional support? Wise up.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#104

Post by oefrha »

Hedja wrote: post #71
teddyh wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These kind of entitled attitude If you offer code to the public – and present it as an active, dependable project – professional behavior is exactly what you implicitly promise and signed up for . If you can’t offer that (at any time, and for any reason), then you should immediately make that clear, front-and-center, to any current and future users. It isn’t “entitlement” on part of the users – the users are making…

To assume certain conditions that are not explicitly laid out without even talking to the person providing you the service is literally entitlement. It seems like you've made assumptions that turned out wrong. I've fallen for it too in the past. Not everyone thinks the same thing so people's assumptions are always different. The key thing is, when your assumptions don't turn out true, to learn from it. In the case of…

Exactly. The open source community is far from homogenous, and people who engage in it (maintainers, packagers, leechers users, etc.) tend to have wildly different expectations that vary from person to person. I’m sure RMS, some Contributor Covenant wielder and I won’t ever agree on a set of assumptions.

Moreover, companies present themselves as “active, dependable project”s then go belly up all the time. Not sure why hobby projects should be held to a higher standard.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#105

Post by saagarjha »

Touche wrote: post #101
tiku wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once it's public and people depend on it you can't retract it like that. His goal was to make his work public, not private.

You can retract it. He just did it. You can take down any webpage under your control. I could delete this comment later if I like. You could delete yours. etc.

> I could delete this comment later if I like.

Now you can’t.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#106

Post by siscia »

j-pb wrote: post #93
siscia wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, sorry to break this to you! But basically any widely used software is supported by major companies just to avoid this problem. Libraries, compilers and kernels alike. If you want to rely on software being there, you should be ready to pay for people to support it. > This is because as a community we have realized that we don't sell libraries, we sell stuff build with them, so we all win when we share. It is cle…

Companies should contribute their fair share by supporting open sources projects monetarily, definitely! But that is a different issue, from the behavioral standards we as a community uphold implicitly, and which are broken by pulling a "left-pad" incident.

I believe we should not demand free work from people only because they were nice enough to push their code on GitHub and let stranger use it for free.

I work in open source as well at both day job and for "fun" but I fix the issue that I want and if people want something from me as author of whatever, there is going to be a money talk.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#107

Post by hocuspocus »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #12
tsukurimashou wrote: post #11

"Ok... So that was unprofessional. If you don't want to maintain a project anymore, you give it to someone else and link to that repo in your README. This just screwed me over big time." https://github.com/actix/actix-web/issues/1#issuecomment-575... These kind of entitled attitude is probably exactly why the guy just removed everything. More details / discussion here: https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/epszt7/ac…

They're right, it was unprofessional... but since the maintainer is not being paid this is not a professional project. It's a personal project. And this seems like a perfectly personal thing to do with something that's preventing happiness.

> It's a personal project.

If you create an organization on GitHub for a project that is meant to remain personal, this kinda sends a wrong signal.

Blaming some users for being rude and entitled, and then deleting an open source repo out of spite... it's a bit hard to feel sympathy for the guy here.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#108

Post by Touche »

geofft wrote: post #99
tsukurimashou wrote: post #11

"Ok... So that was unprofessional. If you don't want to maintain a project anymore, you give it to someone else and link to that repo in your README. This just screwed me over big time." https://github.com/actix/actix-web/issues/1#issuecomment-575... These kind of entitled attitude is probably exactly why the guy just removed everything. More details / discussion here: https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/epszt7/ac…

It's absolutely correct that people don't have obligations simply by putting some code online. But they do have obligations when they start telling people to use their code. We understand this as humans even in realms far from open source: if I see you approaching a door, I am under no obligation to open it just because I'm physically able to, but if I open a door for you, I'd better hold it until you're finished wal…

He held the door open for a lot of people. Some people spit at him as they walked through. He doesn't want to hold the door open any more, he's done it enough. He didn't sign up to be a doorman for life.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#109

Post by j-pb »

shirshak55 wrote: post #66
j-pb wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In open source you give and take. The actix author almost certainly (unless they deploy their own kernel) has profited immensely from other peoples work. This is because as a community we have realized that we don't sell libraries, we sell stuff build with them, so we all win when we share. It is your choice to use open source software without open sourcing your own work or without contributing. But by engaging in op…

"The actix author almost certainly (unless they deploy their own kernel) has profited immensely from other peoples work." Prove it. "But by engaging in open source you engage in a social contract" https://gist.github.com/richhickey/1563cddea1002958f96e7ba95...

>> Prove it.

Actix was written in rust. Rust is OS. qed.

Quote from Rich's gist.

>> I'm sure you know better about the one true way to write software. But kindly don't burn the community down on your way out, with self-serving proclamations.

The actix author could just have walked away, no harm done, push one button "Archive", go outside and enjoy the sun.

Instead they choose to throw a tantrum, write a pamphlet and nuke everything.

Entitlement goes both ways.

Re: Actix project postmortem

#110

Post by saagarjha »

geofft wrote: post #99
tsukurimashou wrote: post #11

"Ok... So that was unprofessional. If you don't want to maintain a project anymore, you give it to someone else and link to that repo in your README. This just screwed me over big time." https://github.com/actix/actix-web/issues/1#issuecomment-575... These kind of entitled attitude is probably exactly why the guy just removed everything. More details / discussion here: https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/epszt7/ac…

It's absolutely correct that people don't have obligations simply by putting some code online. But they do have obligations when they start telling people to use their code. We understand this as humans even in realms far from open source: if I see you approaching a door, I am under no obligation to open it just because I'm physically able to, but if I open a door for you, I'd better hold it until you're finished wal…

Well put. I’d add on to your metaphor: slamming the door on someone is quite different than just not holding it open anymore. The second is totally acceptable; the first is impolite.
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