What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips • Hacker News Board

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#201

Post by yaur » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 7:30 AM UTC

mushufasa wrote: post #5

bobloblaw45 wrote: post #2

I drove for DoorDash for about a month. What killed me was the wait between deliveries. I think it was like 45 minutes on average and when I did get a delivery it was like a tiny $7 delivery. There would be 2 hour stretches of times pretty often. But then once in awhile I'd get a string of maybe 3 or 4 runs that paid like $12. over 2 or 3 hours.It was too inconsistent. Had no idea if I ever got tips, from my understa…

>> There's just too many drivers I think. That's fascinating. Seems like the free market really would drive the wage to 0. DoorDash's "innovation" is the black box to obscure the fact. If they paid more fairly like their competitors, they wouldn't be growing as fast. Seems kindof like a cyberpunk future, with corporations negating regulations through advanced technology. Also in those cyberpunk futures, society break…

taxi medallions were invented to prevent this exact thing.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#202

Post by lwansbrough » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 7:31 AM UTC

CaptainZapp wrote: post #169

arcticbull wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean the idea is that you operate at a loss until the economies of scale catch up and you begin being profitable. Starting with the low price let’s you maximize growth, and you make it up on the back end. That’s not a problematic system. What is problematic is if there are no economies of scale.

Ahh, what you lose on every transaction you make up in volume. Got it!

Except what every startup in Silicon Valley doesn’t seem to realize is there’s a revolving door of VC funded “businesses” that fail because they can’t make a profit after 10 years. And if they try to make a profit (for example by raising prices) users move on to the new cheap option.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#203

Post by ramraj07 » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 7:33 AM UTC

gvjddbnvdrbv wrote: post #179

savanaly wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of all of what you wrote addresses how those folks between a rock and a hard place will be better off not having the option to work for a given service at all.

Because people still want food cooked and delivered and to use taxis. If the non financially viable companies did not exist then financially viable ones would.

Not completely. I remember life before Uber and seamless. I'd just stay home and eat ramen (this is in Dallas and I didn't have a car). These businesses did genuinely create businesses and also changed lives for many by the service. That's not an excuse for such exploitative behavior of course.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#204

Post by DraftDodger67 » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 7:34 AM UTC

lobster45 wrote: post #177

DraftDodger67 wrote: post #174

It seems like the biggest problem that 'Mariah' at the top of the article faces is that she has too many children, no partner, and her car is too fuel inefficient. The best way to help people in her situation is to encourage family planning, marriage, and cheap electric vehicles.

Yes, this would be ideal, but what about the people who are already in this situation? Are they a lost cause?

The taxpayer is already picking up the tab with food stamps.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#205

Post by rusticpenn » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 7:37 AM UTC

savanaly wrote: post #176

vector_spaces wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked these gigs before, and so have friends of mine with advanced STEM degrees. Sometimes you are stuck between a rock and a hard place (usually you are, if you're low income) and your current dilemma is between not being able to afford your rent tomorrow or food tonight, and working some exploitative app gig like this. So cool the condescension. Poor folks -- even those with really low numeracy -- are general…

None of all of what you wrote addresses how those folks between a rock and a hard place will be better off not having the option to work for a given service at all.

I could probably have fuel in my car for two weeks, but be hungry and without food today, Maybe I am looking forward to getting another jon in 2 days so this might help me now.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#206

Post by darawk » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 7:39 AM UTC

CaptainZapp wrote: post #169

arcticbull wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean the idea is that you operate at a loss until the economies of scale catch up and you begin being profitable. Starting with the low price let’s you maximize growth, and you make it up on the back end. That’s not a problematic system. What is problematic is if there are no economies of scale.

Ahh, what you lose on every transaction you make up in volume. Got it!

No reason to complain when you're the one picking up the unit loss, though. Might as well take it while you can.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#207

Post by sschueller » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 7:43 AM UTC

dmode wrote: post #160

Why can’t we have normal businesses where you employ your workers and charge your customers the real cost of the transaction ? If that is not viable, don’t start the business to begin with. Let’s just go back to first principles, can we ?

We can, stop using and supporting these predatory companies.

Never use Uber, Lyft, Doordash, Uber Eats, AirBnB etc. No exception irregardless how easy or cheap it may be. It's a small sacrifice but can and will make a difference.

Using these services to me is like asking a waiter to pay for part of my meal. When it comes around to paying the bill are you able to face someone and ask them to pay for part of what they just served you knowing that they are barely making a living?

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#208

Post by darawk » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 7:43 AM UTC

mlyle wrote: post #181

savanaly wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of all of what you wrote addresses how those folks between a rock and a hard place will be better off not having the option to work for a given service at all.

Because these exploitative schemes displace other delivery jobs and services that work under fairer terms.

These businesses are already unprofitable. So you probably couldn't have another DoorDash that pays its workers more. I suppose you could argue that some restaurants might have their own delivery services, or something. But that'd be tiny in scale compared to what these services are doing.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#209

Post by danans » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 7:45 AM UTC

burlesona wrote: post #67

What I struggle with is why anyone would deliver for Door Dash if the pay is so bad. The article closes with a statement that they want $15/hour plus expenses for drivers. The obvious problem is that I can’t see customers paying that much for delivery - ie. at those wages Door Dash can’t exist. The fact that people choose to do the work makes me think there are people who find it worthwhile, and I can explain a few s…

> The real problem seems to be that there are so many people in need of “family feeding” jobs who are working for Door Dash etc. instead.

All jobs are basically a means for feeding your family, even if that family is just you. Few people work primarily for the fun of it.

The people taking the gig jobs to feed their families are often desperate, with few other options. They aren't taking the gig jobs by mistake. And cynically, this is the objective that our current socio economic system has been optimized for.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#210

Post by eik3_de » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 7:45 AM UTC

marcell wrote: post #30

> “These orders don’t pay for our expenses or our time. We actually lose money when we take those orders. If I pick up an order that is 10 miles away and deliver it 6 miles I’m traveling 16 miles for a $3 order — so I have lost money. I’m in the negative when I account for gas, wear and tear, and other expenses. Not to mention my time.” This begs an obvious question: why are people choosing to do this if it pays $0/h…

> This begs an obvious question: why are people choosing to do this if it pays $0/hr? It’s voluntary. Can they find something better to do with their time?

Maybe because they want to do something purposeful with their life, even if it doesn't earn them any net cash? Maybe a "Thank you" and a smile from a delivery customer makes for a better day then just being "lazy" and watching TV/consuming social media?