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What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

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Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#161

Post by vector_spaces »

cc439 wrote: post #71
marcell wrote: post #30

> “These orders don’t pay for our expenses or our time. We actually lose money when we take those orders. If I pick up an order that is 10 miles away and deliver it 6 miles I’m traveling 16 miles for a $3 order — so I have lost money. I’m in the negative when I account for gas, wear and tear, and other expenses. Not to mention my time.” This begs an obvious question: why are people choosing to do this if it pays $0/h…

"However, if a worker rejects too many jobs too frequently, they may receive fewer job offers as a result." They take those jobs because they lose all access to the chance of profitable jobs otherwise. The people working for door dash aren't exactly the sort of person with the ability to fully understand probabilities and statistics either. I'd say it's fair to assume their business model works by bullying the same p…

I've worked these gigs before, and so have friends of mine with advanced STEM degrees. Sometimes you are stuck between a rock and a hard place (usually you are, if you're low income) and your current dilemma is between not being able to afford your rent tomorrow or food tonight, and working some exploitative app gig like this. So cool the condescension. Poor folks -- even those with really low numeracy -- are generally extremely aware that these gigs are exploitative and not sustainable income sources in the long run and see the scam a mile away. In my experience it's folks who haven't been poor who don't have a good sense for how expensive it is to be poor, for how difficult it is to make long term decisions, and the intractability of problems you have to solve just to get by sometimes

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#162

Post by tempsy »

dmode wrote: post #160

Why can’t we have normal businesses where you employ your workers and charge your customers the real cost of the transaction ? If that is not viable, don’t start the business to begin with. Let’s just go back to first principles, can we ?

That’s what Grubhub does

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#163

Post by arcticbull »

dmode wrote: post #160

Why can’t we have normal businesses where you employ your workers and charge your customers the real cost of the transaction ? If that is not viable, don’t start the business to begin with. Let’s just go back to first principles, can we ?

I mean the idea is that you operate at a loss until the economies of scale catch up and you begin being profitable. Starting with the low price let’s you maximize growth, and you make it up on the back end. That’s not a problematic system. What is problematic is if there are no economies of scale.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#164

Post by orthoxerox »

kevingadd wrote: post #15
OrgNet wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you tip before getting service anyways? that never made sense to me

It's a result of how paying works in this economy, essentially. You scan your card at the register when ordering (or in the app, you plug it all in there) and complete your transaction then. If you're not carrying cash (I tend not to anymore) there's not really any way for you to tip after you've actually had your meal if you already did all the payment up front. Of course you can tip after in some of these apps, but…

> FWIW it seems like these services are pretty generous with refunds/discounts when you have a bad experience if you contact them. I've only had to do it once, but my sister has gotten $5-15 refunds from services like grubhub or doordash multiple times when a delivery goes haywire.

I bet the refund comes from the delivery person's pay.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#166

Post by oarsinsync »

ec109685 wrote: post #135
chillwaves wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may surprise you to learn that most businesses employ minimal staffing no matter what the min. wage is. I worked for $5.25 an hour as a teenager, and that doesn't mean they just employed more people and we all took it easy. I would challenge the assertion that a business would not optimize worker output just because they are cheaper (and cheaper is relative, I'm sure even when it was lower the business owners stil…

Good point. Why would a business voluntarily pay more than they have to?

Businesses used to be a part of their communities.

We’ve suffered a breakdown of the sense of community, and a failure in education resulting in growth in the number of people that continue to believe the fallacy that a business primary function is to maximise value to shareholders.

A business is ultimately a collection of people coming together for mutual benefit. If it stops being mutually beneficial and/or only becomes beneficial for some people if some other people are exploited, it probably shouldn’t continue to be.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#167

Post by Consultant32452 »

csmiller wrote: post #130
Consultant32452 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wages can't drop to zero unless there's an infinite supply of labor. As time has gone by fewer and fewer of the gig economy drivers I see speak English, and fewer of them are the person whose name/face is on the account, so I suspect the pseudo-infinite labor supply is working as intended.

I’ve always wondered what was going on when the driver didn’t match the person listed in the app. Doesn’t seem like there would be any benefit? (For me it’s often a male driver who is displayed as female in the app)

It's categories like illegal immigrants, DUIs or otherwise lost drivers license, can't pass the background check, etc.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#168

Post by shiftpgdn »

csmiller wrote: post #130
Consultant32452 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wages can't drop to zero unless there's an infinite supply of labor. As time has gone by fewer and fewer of the gig economy drivers I see speak English, and fewer of them are the person whose name/face is on the account, so I suspect the pseudo-infinite labor supply is working as intended.

I’ve always wondered what was going on when the driver didn’t match the person listed in the app. Doesn’t seem like there would be any benefit? (For me it’s often a male driver who is displayed as female in the app)

The person doing the actual driving is likely in the country illegaly or driving with a suspended license/no insurance.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#169

Post by CaptainZapp »

arcticbull wrote: post #163
dmode wrote: post #160

Why can’t we have normal businesses where you employ your workers and charge your customers the real cost of the transaction ? If that is not viable, don’t start the business to begin with. Let’s just go back to first principles, can we ?

I mean the idea is that you operate at a loss until the economies of scale catch up and you begin being profitable. Starting with the low price let’s you maximize growth, and you make it up on the back end. That’s not a problematic system. What is problematic is if there are no economies of scale.

Ahh, what you lose on every transaction you make up in volume.

Got it!

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#170

Post by sombremesa »

dmode wrote: post #160

Why can’t we have normal businesses where you employ your workers and charge your customers the real cost of the transaction ? If that is not viable, don’t start the business to begin with. Let’s just go back to first principles, can we ?

Because these companies are still finding enough labor after lowering what they pay out drastically. It's the market in action. You're right that as a society we have a duty to step in with policy here, as we do with minimum wage, but this isn't a violation of "first principles".
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