Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products • Hacker News Board

Re: Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

#11

Post by creato » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 4:14 AM UTC

blurbleblurble wrote: post #7

pbreit wrote: post #2

This seemed pretty obvious when all the stories were about cannabis vaping, not nicotine. And now vaping is thought to be unhealthier than tobacco smoking.

It reminds me of "the great hack". Disinformation is so disturbing.

I don't think this is a deliberate disinformation problem, it's simply that good information and proper investigations take time. In the meantime, people speculating (primarily on social media) dominates and those opinions become indistinguishable from good information to most people, if they ever even see the definitive results at all.

This dynamic has affected almost every thing I pay attention to on the internet. It's depressing.

Re: Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

#12

Post by jrockway » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 4:17 AM UTC

KnightHawk3 wrote: post #3

What's the state of all the laws brought in against vapes under the pretence that nicotine vaping is causing the outbreak in lung illnesses.

Last I checked they banned all cartridges with flavor at the federal level, but made an exception for the liquid you put into your homebuilt equipment.

I am not sure what this accomplishes. Perhaps making it difficult enough that teenagers don't vape?

Here is the source of the regulations: https://www.fda.gov/regulatory-information/search-fda-guidan...

(I used to vape, so I'm familiar with the landscape, but am no longer personally invested.)

Re: Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

#13

Post by WheelsAtLarge » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 4:19 AM UTC

The big problem seems to be that vaping has never been proven to be safe or safer than cigarettes. There's always been the assumption that it is.

My suspicion is that something like this outbreak will happen again.

I'm not a fan of the vaping companies since their goal seems to be to get users addicted to their product but they should go through the process of proving that vaping is safer than cigarettes so they don't get blamed for the next outbreak. And cigarette users have a choice that's less harmful than smoking cigarettes.

Re: Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

#14

Post by Stratoscope » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 4:20 AM UTC

pbreit wrote: post #2

This seemed pretty obvious when all the stories were about cannabis vaping, not nicotine. And now vaping is thought to be unhealthier than tobacco smoking.

The stories were never about cannabis vaping either. They were about adulterated cannabis extract vaping.

Someone using a cannabis flower vaporizer (e.g. PAX 2/3, Firefly, Arizer, Volcano) with pure lab tested flower was never at risk for the lung disease that vitamin E acetate has caused.

The linked article doesn't mention vitamin E acetate, so here's one that discusses it:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/20/21031771/vaping-lung-inj...

Re: Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

#15

Post by TylerE » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 4:21 AM UTC

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #13

The big problem seems to be that vaping has never been proven to be safe or safer than cigarettes. There's always been the assumption that it is. My suspicion is that something like this outbreak will happen again. I'm not a fan of the vaping companies since their goal seems to be to get users addicted to their product but they should go through the process of proving that vaping is safer than cigarettes so they don'…

Cigarettes kill almost 500,000 people a year in the US alone.

We could have 10 of these "outbreaks" a day and still be way ahead.

Re: Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

#16

Post by cududa » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 4:21 AM UTC

blurbleblurble wrote: post #7

pbreit wrote: post #2

This seemed pretty obvious when all the stories were about cannabis vaping, not nicotine. And now vaping is thought to be unhealthier than tobacco smoking.

It reminds me of "the great hack". Disinformation is so disturbing.

If you wanna go another layer on “the great hack” the fun bit is Brittney Kaiser is full of crap. She ran election interference for the last Mexican presidential election.

That just finally leaked this week in The Guardian If she was actually remorseful for her roll in Cambridge Analytica, she would’ve admitted that from the start, instead of doing this whole reputation PR/ The Great Hack thing to make herself still hireable.

Re: Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

#17

Post by inlined » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 4:21 AM UTC

claar wrote: post #8

This article is an obvious propaganda piece. The CDC findings linked within, while boring to read, at least provide a more neutral view.

I feel like propaganda is more subtle or persuasive. I’d personally have used a less charged word like “biased.”

Re: Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

#18

Post by ghayes » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 4:22 AM UTC

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #13

The big problem seems to be that vaping has never been proven to be safe or safer than cigarettes. There's always been the assumption that it is. My suspicion is that something like this outbreak will happen again. I'm not a fan of the vaping companies since their goal seems to be to get users addicted to their product but they should go through the process of proving that vaping is safer than cigarettes so they don'…

I assume many of the effects are long-term and would be hard to quantify in a short-term clinical trial. In that case, what could be done to prove vaping is safer than cigarettes within a reasonable time to market?

Re: Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

#19

Post by icanhackit » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 4:24 AM UTC

claar wrote: post #8

This article is an obvious propaganda piece. The CDC findings linked within, while boring to read, at least provide a more neutral view.

> This article is an obvious propaganda piece.

They're clearly an advocate for vaping, however title [1] and summary are accurate. Per the CDC study:

"Among EVALI patients reporting use of any THC-containing products, 122 of 130 (94%) of those aged 13–17 years acquired products through only informal sources"

"A recent case-control study found vitamin E acetate in the bronchoalveolar lavage fluid of 94% of 51 EVALI patients and in none of 99 healthy controls in the comparator group (4)."

"In addition, an analysis of THC-containing products seized by law enforcement in Minnesota found no vitamin E acetate in 10 products seized in 2018, and 100% of 20 products seized in 2019 contained vitamin E acetate (5)"

[1] CDC Confirms Black Markets, Not “Vaping,” Caused Outbreak

Re: Vaping-related lung injuries primarily linked to black-market products

#20

Post by resters » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 4:26 AM UTC

And again, just as was the case with Boeing, the blame lands squarely on the shoulders of regulators who failed to adequately do their jobs.

In the case of Boeing, the regulatory approach was a joke, and in the case of vaping, regulators had their heads in the sand about a multi billion dollar black market for years.

The death toll resulting from backward recreational drug regulation in the US is mind boggling, not to mention all those still suffering in prison.

People have a knee-jerk reaction of blaming firms and assuming that regulators are doing their best, when in fact regulators are the ones who create the entire (black, gray, etc.) market landscape for all participants to operate in.