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The Boring Company’s Las Vegas tunnel is nearly 50% done

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Re: The Boring Company’s Las Vegas tunnel is nearly 50% done

#101

Post by aeharding »

ryantgtg wrote: post #96
gamblor956 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk never learned that most of the cost of subways is the stations and supporting infrastructure, not digging the tunnel itself. Musk has not proposed any improvements to the expensive parts of tunneling.

Most of the costs are also emergency systems, such as ventilation and frequent exits. From what I've seen (I'm not an engineer or a tunnel expert), his tunnels do not account for these things. The standards, which cost a lot to meet, are there for a reason.

What I am skeptical about is putting large car batteries in tunnels, which store enormous amounts of energy that could potentially be released in combustion and need be managed by adequate ventilation and fire suppression systems.

Versus an electric train. Theoretically, since the energy is transported into the tunnel via power lines, wouldn’t fire suppression and ventilation systems be cheaper since they wouldn’t need to handle so much stored energy potential (via batteries) traveling through a tunnel?

Re: The Boring Company’s Las Vegas tunnel is nearly 50% done

#102

Post by SECProto »

threeseed wrote: post #70
dv_dt wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this follows Elons pattern of being able to find areas where the fundamental technology has advanced and is available, but the integration and step up to a new level hasn't been invested in yet. I think the Boring company basically made more efficient custom built tunneling equipment.

Actually Musk leased an existing Canadian boring machine: http://superexcavators.com/news/super-excavators-consult-mac... There is no evidence of any improvements or innovations.

And the Tesla Roadster was just a modified Lotus Elise.

Buying an of-the-shelf product and reverse engineering it, before building ones' own, is a very valuable step.

Re: The Boring Company’s Las Vegas tunnel is nearly 50% done

#104

Post by johannes1234321 »

astrodust wrote: post #68
xeromal wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is to make it 10x cheaper and 14x faster. The boring company is more of a personal effort by Elon due to his hatred of LA traffic.

"Let's solve traffic by building more roads!" Elon has a lot to learn about induced demand.

He also wants to sell more cars. Not less.

Re: The Boring Company’s Las Vegas tunnel is nearly 50% done

#105

Post by afarrell »

astrodust wrote: post #64
aaron695 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ELI5... why is digging a tunnel tech news? Does Elon dig them faster or more cheaply or something? Honestly as a 5 year old you are not going to get it. This is multi levelled. Some people just like Elon. But what's really however interesting is how Elon is changing manufacturing. It's like a new Kanban But it's not 5 year old stuff. I'd just say, I know all the other kids like rockets and think they are cool to wa…

So what you're saying is you can't explain it.

I think aaron is saying that the meme should be ELI15.

Re: The Boring Company’s Las Vegas tunnel is nearly 50% done

#106

Post by jacques_chester »

ShorsHammer wrote: post #88
mc3 wrote: post #41

ELI5... why is digging a tunnel tech news? Does Elon dig them faster or more cheaply or something? Otherwise do I submit this to HN? https://www.sydneymetro.info/tunnelling . I think tunnels are the future though for cities. But I'd prefer trains to be running in them, or roads that only allow electric public transport. Edit. In 1988 they started work on the Channel Tunnel UK to France: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

That Sydney Metro tunnel is coming in at nearly double the initial budgeted cost. It's over $1B per km of tunnel. Australian infrastructure projects are hardly something to be proud of.

The MTA's Second Avenue line in New York comes out to more than AU$2Bn per km, on my reckoning (US$2.6Bn/mile). It's the current world champion for expensive holes.

The fact is that megaprojects basically never come in anywhere near their schedule or budget. That's because of a selection bias. When you crunch the numbers honestly, megaprojects come out as a terrible on a cost-benefit or ROI analysis. The ones that get built are built by people who choose to ignore the honest figures in favour of the shiny, optimistic ones. Et voila, another farce.

There are lots of other factors, but that's the core one that precedes the others.

Re: The Boring Company’s Las Vegas tunnel is nearly 50% done

#107

Post by jacques_chester »

mdszy wrote: post #9

So they're halfway through digging the tunnel, not halfway through doing all the other things to make the tunnel actually as useful as musk is claiming. This all just seems like subways from first principles but probably worse.

If you want to build subways in less time for less money, the from-first-principles conclusion is that cut-and-cover is stupendously cheaper and quicker than tunneling.

But nobody wants to be the one who signs off on "long sections of major roads closed for months at a time over a period of several years".

Re: The Boring Company’s Las Vegas tunnel is nearly 50% done

#109

Post by drcross »

mc3 wrote: post #50
dv_dt wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this follows Elons pattern of being able to find areas where the fundamental technology has advanced and is available, but the integration and step up to a new level hasn't been invested in yet. I think the Boring company basically made more efficient custom built tunneling equipment.

Yeah OK, does anyone have the angle on that? Is there a new technology aspect here?

Along with the tunnelling speed improvements from what I'm gathering they are using model X chassis vehicles within the tunnels. The benefit of this is that you don't need rails, just line following sensors. There's no brake replacement because of regen etc. The main takeaway is that the carriage system will be able to be maintained by car mechanics and not locomotion engineers. What the stations will look like will be interesting to see because each "carriage" will be able to depart once full instead of waiting for an entire train to fill up.

Re: The Boring Company’s Las Vegas tunnel is nearly 50% done

#110

Post by ClumsyPilot »

retrovm wrote: post #39
neltnerb wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though if they really dug that much tunnel under a city in such a short time, maybe there's an actual innovation in a better way to make subway tunnels? I think putting cars in these tunnels is silly and that subways are obviously the best answer personally, but I'm also watching two new light rail lines being put in next to my house. It does not seem quick (though they're elevated). It'd be lovely if those tracks we…

No, it's just a lot smaller. A 12-foot-wide tunnel is, shockingly, much cheaper than a 21-foot-wide tunnel. It also has essentially zero capacity, much like a hyperloop. If you want to punch useless holes in the earth, Elon Musk is your man without a doubt.

This is the most important factor - the amount of people such a tunnel can move is borderline insignificant, compared to a proper subway with a train.
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