A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change • Hacker News Board

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#151

Post by llebttam » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 11:07 PM UTC

jasonlaramburu wrote: post #136

The author seems to assume that deserts are lifeless places, which is incorrect. Converting billions of acres of desert to a monocrop forest would kill the billions of plants and animals which have become adapted to that environment, which could also negate the emissions reductions. Monocrops are also ecologically unstable and easily destroyed by disease.

FWIW, I don't think he's creating a monocrop forest -- he's planting a range of species that form an interdependent web.

This is also being done in locations that were forests a few hundred years ago before humans cut them down. The mature forest is a self-sustaining ecosystem, but it needs extra water for a few decades until it reaches that point. https://www.westhawaiitoday.com/2020/01/12/hawaii-news/yisha...

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#152

Post by noiv » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 11:09 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #128

noiv wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to imagine problems worse than Earth with +4C.

A fair amount of greenhouse gas emissions are from growing and transporting food. "Just stop" means that a fair amount of our food production stops. The problem with +4C is a lot of people dying; killing them earlier by starvation is not a solution.

You do realize starvation is already happening because of changing weather pattern?

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#153

Post by noiv » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 11:22 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #140

noiv wrote: post #61

> There is no one single clever solution to the climate problem. There is. Just stop emitting greenhouse gases.

Please don't post unsubstantive comments and/or flamebait to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22064741 .

I'd like to know in which part of the planet my comment is unsubstantiated.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#154

Post by acvny » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 12:10 AM UTC

Although forests have many more other benefits like animal habitat, soil creation, local climate change, cloud generation, ..., a simpler, quicker and cheaper solution would be to invent artificial photosynthesizers (using solar light) or electrosynthesizers (using electricity) - huge installations that would absorb air like big vacuum cleaners, capture the CO2 and decompose the molecule into Carbon products. For example by employing such processes as Reduction of CO2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrochemical_reduction_of_c...

The only thing that's needed is to incentivize such research. Let's say creating a global fund of 20-30 Billion dollars and encouraging researchers to apply for grants from this fund.

Next step after basic research is done and something feasible invented would be to commercialize the solutions. However again here we would need incentives. It is really hard to implement the idea without commercial interest.

What would be a good incentive for this? Well, the captured carbon could be sold... Any other ideas?

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#155

Post by Myrmornis » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 12:27 AM UTC

I hope that all reforestation programs in the future will use local native species and will not use fast-growing non-natives such as Eucalyptus. The "woodland" around, for example Berkeley California, is so depressing to contemplate due to the dominance of Eucalyptus and the corresponding lack of fauna.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#156

Post by rfdave » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 12:32 AM UTC

acvny wrote: post #154

Although forests have many more other benefits like animal habitat, soil creation, local climate change, cloud generation, ..., a simpler, quicker and cheaper solution would be to invent artificial photosynthesizers (using solar light) or electrosynthesizers (using electricity) - huge installations that would absorb air like big vacuum cleaners, capture the CO2 and decompose the molecule into Carbon products. For exa…

Option 1 - Plant trees that have been growing for millennia, with skills that are wide spread across all of humanity Option 2 - Invent technology that is currently unknown, scale it to a world wide scale, facing unknown challenges and problems with technology that is today completely unknown.

Hmmmmm

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#157

Post by yishan » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 12:38 AM UTC

rfdave wrote: post #156

acvny wrote: post #154

Although forests have many more other benefits like animal habitat, soil creation, local climate change, cloud generation, ..., a simpler, quicker and cheaper solution would be to invent artificial photosynthesizers (using solar light) or electrosynthesizers (using electricity) - huge installations that would absorb air like big vacuum cleaners, capture the CO2 and decompose the molecule into Carbon products. For exa…

Option 1 - Plant trees that have been growing for millennia, with skills that are wide spread across all of humanity Option 2 - Invent technology that is currently unknown, scale it to a world wide scale, facing unknown challenges and problems with technology that is today completely unknown. Hmmmmm

I agree and would say the same thing, but slightly less dismissively. :)

The key here is that we're out of time. This coming decade is probably the last one we will have where the problem can be solved at a cost less than 10% of world GDP. If we wait another 10 years, I suspect all solutions will require a significant fraction of global GDP and authoritarian-style interventions.

As a technologist, I'd love a magical new technology. But I'm also an engineer, and I want to execute the most efficient and low-risk solution in the smallest possible timeframe. After taking all factors into account, that's massive reforestation.

If new technologies are developed in the meantime, that's GOOD. Every bit of help that's put into play helps us. It's not a competition, it's a collective race against time, and we can all contribute.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#158

Post by yishan » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 12:42 AM UTC

ahartman00 wrote: post #145

Merrill wrote: post #70

The core assumption is that 3 billion out of a total of 4.7 billion acres of desert currently existing can be reforested by planting trees and irrigating them for 20 years, after which they will continue growing without irrigation. Is this possible, except for marginal areas bordering the deserts? Aren't most desert areas desert because of very low precipitation? This may be practical for areas such as the example in…

>irrigating them for 20 years And there is an assumption that there is enough freshwater to do this. "A third of the world’s biggest groundwater systems are already in distress" "Water scarcity already affects every continent. Water use has been growing globally at more than twice the rate of population increase in the last century, and an increasing number of regions are reaching the limit at which water services ca…

Correct, water scarcity is in fact the PRIMARY bottleneck.

The main "innovation" in this solution isn't "we must plant massive forests," it's that clean (solar-powered) desalination is now possible at very large scales, so we are able to provide the volumes of freshwater necessary for large-scale reforestation and conversion of deserts.

Forestry people have known for decades that trees were the best solution to CO2 in the atmosphere, but there wasn't enough forestable land. And while we can reclaim deserts, we couldn't do it at scale unless we irrigate. And we couldn't do it unless we could affordably create a new source of freshwater that wasn't already needed for humans and agriculture.

Now we have it. Now the solution in possible.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#159

Post by petecox » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 12:56 AM UTC

Nasrudith wrote: post #30

berbec wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't shallow pools of algea in a greenhouse be much more efficient than trees?

Technically yes but it would be generally worse at self-sustaining scalability - you need to construct more greenhouses, keep the higher exposed surface area of water from evaporating, and find a sequestering use for that algae. Non-biodegrading bioplastic made with renewable eneegy could technically work for that role but more plastic waste isn't approved of for obvious reasons.

> find a sequestering use for that algae.

Beer.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-15/growing-algae-to-brew...

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#160

Post by fallingfrog » Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 2:00 AM UTC

growlist wrote: post #6

fallingfrog wrote: post #2

No, ending the extraction and burning of fossil fuels is how we fix climate change. Anything else is just buying time.

An honest question: if a technological solution were found that both solved climate change and allowed us to continue burning fossil fuels, would you accept it?

That would depend on the risks and the side effects, but assuming there was some magic bullet that would restore the atmosphere to a stable state and allow the burning of unlimited fossil fuels- yes, in a heartbeat.