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U.S. Torpedo Troubles During World War II (1998)

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61–70 of 92 posts

Re: U.S. Torpedo Troubles During World War II (1998)

#61
> Maneuvering as close to a 90-degree track as possible, the submarine fired three torpedoes against the rock cliffs. The first two exploded, but the third threw up the familiar geyser of compressed air and water. Divers carefully retrieved the activated yet unexploded torpedo. The valuable dud was then hauled back to Pearl Harbor for examination.

Damn, for me any person who deals with any kind of unexploded ordnance is (as well) a hero.

Re: U.S. Torpedo Troubles During World War II (1998)

#62
post #57

> Because of this logistics fiasco, veteran submariner and historian Paul Schratz said he ‘was only one of many frustrated submariners who thought it a violation of New Mexico scenery to test the A-bomb at Alamagordo when the naval torpedo station was available.’ LOL. Another interesting fact about the US torpedoes is that they were slow by WWII standards, especially compared to the Japanese torpedoes. This is normal…

It's important to note that the torpedoes Japanese generally used we powered by compressed pure oxygen, making them faster & giving them more range. But it also turned them into even bigger explosion hazard than normal torpedoes when the ship caring them is hit. As a result many Japanese ships are documented going down after what would normally be minor hits due to their oxygen torpedoes exploding and causing massive…

I wonder what the breakdown is on overall effectiveness, sometimes you can get some very perverse results. Kamikaze attacks for instance resulted in less pilots killed per damage dealt than traditional attacks even though attacks were 100% fatal, here's a good video breakdown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqwDvxLVZII

Re: U.S. Torpedo Troubles During World War II (1998)

#63
post #50
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another example is when the M16 rifle was first introduced in the Vietnam War, it was unreliable due to fouling.

This was prominently shown in the first Vietkong game, including having to use just 20 round clips when using it to reduce the chance of fouling happening. Quite a nice touch.

I don't think that 20 round magazines were used to reduce fouling and the chance of misfires.

It was just the standard magazine capacity of the time.

Re: U.S. Torpedo Troubles During World War II (1998)

#64
post #42

WASHINGTON, Dec. 1 — The Department of Energy said tonight that approximately three‐quarters of the A‐1 model Polaris nuclear warheads deployed on submarines in the mid‐1960's were probably “duds” because of mechanical defects. https://www.nytimes.com/1978/12/02/archives/early-polaris-mi... To be fair, the Japanese had really good torpedos at the start of WWII, but there were other things which were just as unproven…

Another example is when the M16 rifle was first introduced in the Vietnam War, it was unreliable due to fouling.

One of the major issues with early versions of the M16 was that they used a different propellant for the ammunition than what it was designed with. This propellant caused increased fouling.

They were also initially issued without cleaning kits, because they were apparently "self cleaning", which is patent bullshit.

Re: U.S. Torpedo Troubles During World War II (1998)

#65
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strategically crucial in a Pacific that had seen most everything the Japan side of Midway fall. If Midway had fallen, New Guinea, Coral Sea and Fiji were next in line, putting Australia and New Zealand at risk. What you call minimal gain would, had Yamamoto's plan come off, have put over 60% of the Pacific under Imperial Japanese control. US would have been fighting their way across the Pacific, island to island at a…

Granted, Yamamoto himself had no illusions re: a protracted struggle between Japanese industry, vs. American industry of the '30's/'40's era. Assuming no loss of political will, I suspect even in a worse case scenario where the US lost all its 3 carriers, it would still have eventually produced enough to win the war. Just maybe it would have taken several years longer...

I think you're ignoring the Soviet Unions contribution to the war. Even if America lost all 3 carriers you'd still have Manchuria and Korea failing to the soviets and the imminent threat of an invasion to the home islands, which even in our time line forced the surrender of Japan. Japan might have had more resources and industry to combat this but they'd still at least lose at roughly the same time on continental Asia.

Re: U.S. Torpedo Troubles During World War II (1998)

#66
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The logic behind test bans (in conjunction with numerical caps on warheads) is to create uncertainty in the reliability of one's own arsenal to discourage either side from contemplating a first-strike.

I'm not sure about that. What if you're convinced that your brilliant scientists have created working warheads while you think the enemy's dolts haven't been able to keep their arsenal working? What if your enemy thinks the same thing in reverse? I think there's always a temptation to overestimate one's own capability and underestimate the sophistication of others.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Torpedo Troubles During World War II (1998)

#67
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another example is when the M16 rifle was first introduced in the Vietnam War, it was unreliable due to fouling.

One of the major issues with early versions of the M16 was that they used a different propellant for the ammunition than what it was designed with. This propellant caused increased fouling. They were also initially issued without cleaning kits, because they were apparently "self cleaning", which is patent bullshit.

iirc the barrel linings also were not chromed for the first few years, which caused corrosion (half-remembered from chivers' the gun)

Re: U.S. Torpedo Troubles During World War II (1998)

#68
post #57

> Because of this logistics fiasco, veteran submariner and historian Paul Schratz said he ‘was only one of many frustrated submariners who thought it a violation of New Mexico scenery to test the A-bomb at Alamagordo when the naval torpedo station was available.’ LOL. Another interesting fact about the US torpedoes is that they were slow by WWII standards, especially compared to the Japanese torpedoes. This is normal…

It's important to note that the torpedoes Japanese generally used we powered by compressed pure oxygen, making them faster & giving them more range. But it also turned them into even bigger explosion hazard than normal torpedoes when the ship caring them is hit. As a result many Japanese ships are documented going down after what would normally be minor hits due to their oxygen torpedoes exploding and causing massive…

Why pure oxygen?

Re: U.S. Torpedo Troubles During World War II (1998)

#69
post #68
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to note that the torpedoes Japanese generally used we powered by compressed pure oxygen, making them faster & giving them more range. But it also turned them into even bigger explosion hazard than normal torpedoes when the ship caring them is hit. As a result many Japanese ships are documented going down after what would normally be minor hits due to their oxygen torpedoes exploding and causing massive…

Why pure oxygen?

More energy stored in the same volume air tank. With normal air used by conventional torpedoes, you get just 20% oxygen and 80% nitrogen, which is not useful for combustion.

I think I might need to clarify - we are talking about a torpedo that is driven by combustion engine. It carries some sort of fuel and because it is under water, it needs to provide it's own oxidizer, which is where the high pressure pure oxygen comes in.

Also, unlike when using normal air, it should be possible for the combustion engine to be more powerful while being smaller, due to the more energetic reaction. Also the exhaust gasses don't contain nitrogen, which is apparently visible as a noticeable bubble trail, which might result in your target noticing the torpedo and dogging.

For more detail, see the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_93_torpedo

Re: U.S. Torpedo Troubles During World War II (1998)

#70

> Because of this logistics fiasco, veteran submariner and historian Paul Schratz said he ‘was only one of many frustrated submariners who thought it a violation of New Mexico scenery to test the A-bomb at Alamagordo when the naval torpedo station was available.’ LOL. Another interesting fact about the US torpedoes is that they were slow by WWII standards, especially compared to the Japanese torpedoes. This is normal…

I remember reading a similar side effect of slower technology during the sinking of the Bismark. The British were using older bi-plane torpedo planes, while the Bismark had the latest anti-aircraft, mechanized guns. The swiveling speed of these newer guns was too fast to accurately track to slow bi-planes. This made the Bismark's anti-aircraft less effective.
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