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Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

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Re: Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

#131

Post by jonhohle »

bradstewart wrote: post #62
cytzol wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think this way, too, so I don’t think you’re weird. At my old workplace, everyone else was a Java IDE wizard, and I was used to good old-fashioned text editors. Aren’t you distracted by that widget appearing while you’re typing, I thought? Is it really faster for you to hit the Down arrow three times instead of just typing ‘empty’? Do people not learn the libraries they’re using anymore‽ But over time, some…

This. I find it's even more valuable with the explosion of 3rd-party libraries and packages--I'm constantly interfacing with code I didn't write, and autocomplete is _way_ faster than context switching to look at the docs/source of a library.

Yeah, really! Who would want to read the docs of a library!?

Re: Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

#133

Post by tolmasky »

OskarS wrote: post #20

You know, I realize I'm the weird one here, but: when writing code, I almost always turn off autocomplete. Sometimes you basically have to have it on (when the language is demands it) but I usually turn it off. It's too much visual noise, too distracting. It's a thing that pops up that demands your attention. If I want to type if (myVector->empty()) { fillVector(myVector); } autocomplete will pop up a window like 4 t…

I am in the same boat, but was recently told I program very differently than most people. I write a bunch of stuff that does not attempt to be syntactically correct (everything from while(???){ } since I don't know what the exit condition is yet, to straight up interlacing "a --> something --> b" or random ascii drawing of trees, in the middle). To me code is very similar to writing an essay, especially at the beginning, I'll have random lines all over the place as I develop the idea, and only reign it in to something that will actually run much later. For this reason, I also am totally OK without syntax highlighting often. My editor of choice has a bug where it often won't syntax highlight on the creation of a new file and you have to manually reselect the language. I actually like this and treat it like a feature: new files start in "brainstorm mode" and only "earn" syntax highlighting once they are sufficiently mature, at which point the environment becomes more constrained. This kind of accidentally mirrors the behavior of CodeWarrior which I used to love for C++: before the age of running a daemon in a parallel process to syntax highlight, CodeWarrior would only "know" the classes and methods you defined on the last successful compile. This was simple and fairly bullet-proof: no need to clear any weird caches or anything, no crashing background thread trying to highlight incorrect code, new classes were unrecognized until you hit compile.

That being said, even if I programmed with the intent of continuing to be syntactically correct during the entire process (which I do when I am editing an existing file usually), I still cannot stand autocomplete, or really anything beyond simple syntax highlighting, because I feel like everything about today's computing experience is yelling at me. Notifications constantly popping up, linters yelling about stuff I don't care about yet, and autocomplete acting like clippy telling me every possible method that starts with an S. I find it severely distracting. I wouldn't want Microsoft Word to tell me every verb that starts with "s" just because it knows that in this position of the sentence I must be typing a verb and I just hit an "s".

Re: Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

#134

Post by jonhohle »

deckard1 wrote: post #128
OskarS wrote: post #20

You know, I realize I'm the weird one here, but: when writing code, I almost always turn off autocomplete. Sometimes you basically have to have it on (when the language is demands it) but I usually turn it off. It's too much visual noise, too distracting. It's a thing that pops up that demands your attention. If I want to type if (myVector->empty()) { fillVector(myVector); } autocomplete will pop up a window like 4 t…

What's often missing from these discussions is the impact on human memory. Back when I started programming, I never used syntax highlighting. It just wasn't a thing for a large part of my early years. Text mode VisualBasic and QuickBasic didn't have it. Nor did GW-BASIC, QuickC, Pascal, I could go on... I was at the point where I could write C code and have it compile the first time. No syntax errors, no compiler err…

I tend to agree with this line of thinking. I've been almost exclusively a Vim user for the past 15 years and feel like, if anything, it's made me a better programmer because I do spend a lot of time reading docs and code, refining my mental model of APIs, and often, thinking through problems before I start typing since I know that all of the characters in the file will come from strokes of my fingers.

There are certain classes of autocomplete bugs that just can't happen when you're typing every #include/import/require that I find myself continually cleaning up and writing static analysis for.

I spend far more time reading other people's code than writing it. Autocomplete doesn't provide any assistance there.

Re: Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

#135

Post by jcelerier »

OskarS wrote: post #20

You know, I realize I'm the weird one here, but: when writing code, I almost always turn off autocomplete. Sometimes you basically have to have it on (when the language is demands it) but I usually turn it off. It's too much visual noise, too distracting. It's a thing that pops up that demands your attention. If I want to type if (myVector->empty()) { fillVector(myVector); } autocomplete will pop up a window like 4 t…

> For no real reason: i can type "empty()" on the keyboard faster than I can look at a screen

I just checked my key sequence for writing that :

   ifmyv.emfillmyv;
At no point I had to "choose" from a list from screen - if I have to I just type the next letter until what I want is accessible under .

It's most certainly faster for me to press a single enter when it does than the four remaining letters, and the parentheses

Re: Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

#136

Post by jcelerier »

OskarS wrote: post #35
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit confused - isn't autocomplete utterly benign if you don't use it? Using Visual Studio I've never had to autocomplete unless I wanted to, so I've lost no time by having it on if I just want to trudge through, but there's plenty of times I can auto-complete away whole expressions by typing a letter or two and then hitting tab. Regarding nightmarish Java type names I'd rather the name for things be the fully w…

I'd argue that it's not benign. I think there are very real costs. First off all, "misuse" of autocomplete can be very annoying. Some autocomplete system autocompletes when you press tab, some when you press enter. Many times I've been typing a thing, finished the line with the autocomplete window still open, pressed enter to go to the next line, and instead have auto-complete enter a bunch of stuff I don't want. The…

> I type while looking at the screen,

you should try typing with closed eyes. after some time you see the code directly in your mind.

Re: Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

#137

Post by scarface74 »

OskarS wrote: post #20

You know, I realize I'm the weird one here, but: when writing code, I almost always turn off autocomplete. Sometimes you basically have to have it on (when the language is demands it) but I usually turn it off. It's too much visual noise, too distracting. It's a thing that pops up that demands your attention. If I want to type if (myVector->empty()) { fillVector(myVector); } autocomplete will pop up a window like 4 t…

Easily typeable often comes in conflict with easily comprehendable. I would much rather see long descriptive names than a lot of comments.

Re: Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

#138

Post by scarface74 »

jonhohle wrote: post #131
bradstewart wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I find it's even more valuable with the explosion of 3rd-party libraries and packages--I'm constantly interfacing with code I didn't write, and autocomplete is _way_ faster than context switching to look at the docs/source of a library.

Yeah, really! Who would want to read the docs of a library!?

So let me introduce you to Boto3....

https://boto3.amazonaws.com/v1/documentation/api/latest/refe...

Re: Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

#139

Post by aratakareigen »

bradstewart wrote: post #62
cytzol wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think this way, too, so I don’t think you’re weird. At my old workplace, everyone else was a Java IDE wizard, and I was used to good old-fashioned text editors. Aren’t you distracted by that widget appearing while you’re typing, I thought? Is it really faster for you to hit the Down arrow three times instead of just typing ‘empty’? Do people not learn the libraries they’re using anymore‽ But over time, some…

This. I find it's even more valuable with the explosion of 3rd-party libraries and packages--I'm constantly interfacing with code I didn't write, and autocomplete is _way_ faster than context switching to look at the docs/source of a library.

Interesting, but why not just have the autocomplete as a pane on the side so that you can focus, in the 99% case where you do have a good grasp of your dependencies?

Re: Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

#140

Post by scarface74 »

deckard1 wrote: post #128
OskarS wrote: post #20

You know, I realize I'm the weird one here, but: when writing code, I almost always turn off autocomplete. Sometimes you basically have to have it on (when the language is demands it) but I usually turn it off. It's too much visual noise, too distracting. It's a thing that pops up that demands your attention. If I want to type if (myVector->empty()) { fillVector(myVector); } autocomplete will pop up a window like 4 t…

What's often missing from these discussions is the impact on human memory. Back when I started programming, I never used syntax highlighting. It just wasn't a thing for a large part of my early years. Text mode VisualBasic and QuickBasic didn't have it. Nor did GW-BASIC, QuickC, Pascal, I could go on... I was at the point where I could write C code and have it compile the first time. No syntax errors, no compiler err…

When I first started, I spent all of my time writing C at my keyboard with few interruptions.

Two decades later, at any given time, I’ll be writing C#, Python, Javascript, yml for CloudFormation, a litany of third party external dependencies, internal libraries written by developers on multiple teams, etc.

Not to mention “polyglot persistence” dealing with Mysql, DynamoDB and ElasticSearch. All that and Zi purposefully avoid the front framework of the week.

The scope of what I am expected to know changes.

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