> · Red: dominant, driven, solution focussed. > · Blue: analytic, careful, meticulous > · Green: patient, considerate, nice > · Yellow: extroverted, creative, verbal Damn. I spent so much of my time and energy pushing back exactly on this bullshit when I was young. That's part of the curriculum of mandatory courses I had to take during an apprenticeship in Switzerland. Expensive and mandatory courses paid by students…
Neuro-Linguistic Programming is related to General Semantics, which was developed by Alfred Korzybski. General Semantics isn't bullshit like NLP is, but it does have some useful insights. For example, General Semantics says that the map is not the territory, which isn't the most absolutely ground-breaking thing in the world but is helpful to keep in mind, whereas Neuro-Linguistic Programming might as well be "NLP: La…
How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
261–270 of 340 posts
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#262Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#263I had never heard of this book, or color system before, but it makes me think of my time working in car sales. Our senior sales managers trained us to identify personalities, and they used similar groupings. There were four 'buckets' and they are very close to this color system. They are dominant driver, complacent, ego driven, and analytical. The idea is to, as quickly as possible, identify the customer's type, and…
If the framework were even a tiny bit useful, wouldn’t it have made you at least an okay salesman?
Conversely, wouldn’t the great salesmen be great regardless of how valid a framework is?
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#264I had never heard of this book, or color system before, but it makes me think of my time working in car sales. Our senior sales managers trained us to identify personalities, and they used similar groupings. There were four 'buckets' and they are very close to this color system. They are dominant driver, complacent, ego driven, and analytical. The idea is to, as quickly as possible, identify the customer's type, and…
Someone may be generally very detail oriented yet when they buy a car, they may be very complacent. In fact you could think that a 'more ideal' color system would look like some 4 colored Piet Mondrian painting.
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#265Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#266Reading the article, the various comments and the linked "Why We Sleep" criticism, I feel really disillusioned. Honestly, there will always be people who write stuff they have no idea about, or write stuff that are factually wrong. But where does that leave me, and perhaps many other layman readers? I, as a layman in psychology/neuroscience/ , do not have the academic qualifications or the time to go through and unde…
In general it helps to have a skeptical mindset, try to figure out the intent of the author by how they treat facts, do they present inconsistent arguments or gloss over relevant fallacies in the claims? Then their intent is probably more about presenting a good argument than correct representation of facts.
Another thing to be watchful for is claims that "make sense" or are "obvious", it's easy to fall in the trap of ignoring conflicting evidence when the theory sounds good.
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
Outside a small percentage of fraudsters, having a Ph.D. in a subject is hard proof that one has devoted thousands of hours into said subject and has treaded a more or less established path, with at least a modicum of quality assurance from field experts. That doesn't automatically make someone an expert (depending on the definition of course), but it does indicate one can have a serious conversation on said subject…
If you reduce your standard from a Ph.D. to a 4 year degree from an accredited university, how well does the filter work? If someone is speaking physics and has a B.S. in physics, while it isn't as good a check as a Ph.D., they are fare more likely to know what they are talking about than someone without any degree in physics. I would also add another standard of career experience at applying knowledge, though I migh…
Roughly speaking, coming out of a 4 year degree doesn't signal expertise in anything. It means you have learned to "think like an X" to some degree, and have a working knowledge of some of the foundational stuff in an an area.
Coming out of a PhD signals you have achieved expertise in a pretty narrow area of a subfield (and explored the bleeding edge a bit), but also that you have learned how to gain that sort of mastery again, alone, in at least related areas.
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Looks like it is not only Sweden but other places as well. As an American it’s a little reassuring to know that despite some economic advantages, the Swedes are also just a bunch of easily impressionable idiots.
It has to be true then, the book author did state that he was surrounded by such.
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#269Reading the article, the various comments and the linked "Why We Sleep" criticism, I feel really disillusioned. Honestly, there will always be people who write stuff they have no idea about, or write stuff that are factually wrong. But where does that leave me, and perhaps many other layman readers? I, as a layman in psychology/neuroscience/ , do not have the academic qualifications or the time to go through and unde…
If one hasn't studied at the university and read the real scientific papers and learned to compared the good ones to the bad ones in one's own field (and everywhere there are enough bad ones too) my impression one has no chance to be good at recognizing the difference.
And even once one learns to recognize the difference in his own area, he's typically has too much confidence to be able to repeat that in other fields.
So it's really hard. The best bet is really learning to discover what the limits of he fields are, who are real experts in the field, then read what they write etc. It's never simple. But if you're just watching a TV where something is presented as a "debate" learn to recognize what's "behind" the two only people who are shown as two "sides": behind a real scientists could be the whole scientific community, effectively all the experts in their field, and behind the guy who "sounds" better in the show can be simply... money from some specific interest group which finances an "actor" who looks good.
What's however certain is that it was always so: there were always people successfully "selling" as the nonsense as their "knowledge." I'm at the moment reading 1979 book:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broca%27s_Brain
and there the same tricks in selling untruths as today were already (unsurprisingly) actual.
Earlier, Asimov also attempted to debunk a lot of intentional distortions of achieved human knowledge in popular media.
Or even earlier, Mencken 1925:
https://web.archive.org/web/20010219062704/http://www.positi...
"The inferior man's reasons for hating knowledge are not hard to discern. He hates it because it is complex -- because it puts an unbearable burden upon his meager capacity for taking in ideas. Thus his search is always for short cuts. All superstitions are such short cuts. Their aim is to make the unintelligible simple, and even obvious. So on what seem to be higher levels. No man who has not had a long and arduous education can understand even the most elementary concepts of modern pathology. But even a hind at the plow can grasp the theory of chiropractic in two lessons. Hence the vast popularity of chiropractic among the submerged -- and of osteopathy, Christian Science and other such quackeries with it. They are idiotic, but they are simple -- and every man prefers what he can understand to what puzzles and dismays him."
In the article we discuss, it's also a "shortcut" the topic of the book: four colors for people, and "everything is simple, even obvious."
The most important part from the article we comment to is therefore:
"Despite the use of colours, it turned out that the “Surrounded by …” books were not based on Myers-Brigg. Instead, they built on another personality theory, the so-called DiSC model. The most noteworthy outcome of a search through the academic literature on this model was that, despite the fact that the test had been around for fifty years, there was in principle no research on whether or not it worked."
From the books about pseudo-scientific claims presented in media as "real" science I also recommend "The War On Science" by Shawn Otto:
https://milkweed.org/book/the-war-on-science
and "Merchants of Doubt" by Naomi Oreskes, Erik M. Conway:
https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/merchants-of-doubt-97815969161...
In short, there are definitely enough people who earn money by "selling" falsehoods. It was never an accident.
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be a scientist is not enough to use the scientific method in isolation. Because modern science is much bigger than anyone can understand as an individual, it is an imperative requirement that you also articulate your findings to the scientific community as a way to prove/disprove your personal conclusions. In other words, the requirement for proper use of the scientific method in a modern society can only been acc…
Using the scientific method in isolation is enough to be a scientist. If I: 1. form a falsifiable hypothesis based on observation 2. come up with (reproducible) experiments in an attempt to confirm and (more importantly) falsify my hypothesis 3. accurately measure and analyze my experimental results 4. modify or throw out hypotheses where necessary 5. rinse repeat I am a scientist. If I then make prescriptive stateme…