Live data from Hacker News

Pervasive myths about older software developers

lessonsoffailure.com

11–20 of 73 posts

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#11
The thing is, when you're older, there's really no way to reach the younger generation. They aren't listening to you because you're older, for the most part, and they've been listening to their "out of touch" parents their whole lives. They won't understand until their your age, and then they'll have to deal with another younger generation.

This isn't a criticism of anyone, just my obeservation about why there is a gap.

It is a shame too, because youth has the energy and age has the wisdom, and if the two could be combined, companies would benefit.

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#13
Personally, I've grown a lot as a software developer because of my experience with project failures. I had one that turned my life upside down, but that helped me gain the attribute of fearlessness.

I've seen the worst that can happen, and that's given me both courage and maturity.

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#14
One thing that I think hasn't been recognized by popular engineering culture is that the guys who started programming in the 1970s had a lot less to work with, and had a harder time. They often worked in assembly, and a soldering iron was a legitimate debugging tool.

Those who started programming in the 1980s had compilers but languages were something you went out and bought, and they were sold like enterprise software, expensive, slow to be updated and not sophisticated.

Those who started programming in the 1990s came of age when a major revolution was being effected by Java. But you still had to build a lot of infrastructure, and engineering involved a large amount of tedium.

The last decade has seen a huge advancement in the quality of the tools, and thus the barrier for entry for programmers is a lot lower.

I even remember meeting one young gun who was proud of the fact that he didn't have a computer at home because this was a job, why would he do it at home?

this is the opposite of the hacker mentality. In the 1970s you had to be a rare breed of hacker, and by the 1990s mainstream hackers could get into the business.

Now people who never wrote a program before entering college are graduating with CS degrees. So it is not only that they don't have a lot of real world work experience, they often haven't been programming at all for more than 4 years.

This is a huge shift in demographics and attitudes. I'm sure many of them are very intelligent and genuine hackers... but they are a very different culture.

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#16
I totally agree with most points.. it's really more of a mentality thing than an age thing. The only part I don't totally agree is the commitment part. It's hard to deny that you have much more free time at 20 years old than at 40. I mean, I'm ~25 and I feel I don't have enough time to do and learn everything I want.. I can't imagine that I'll have any more time with children.

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#17
From anecdotal evidence I will put forward another theory. Because CS and programming are relatively new and rapidly growing fields a large number of programmers in the early years were random office workers who could type, press ganged into development duties. Education started to catch up in the 80s and 90s so young kids with a real grounding in fundamentals were coming into organizations staffed with older developers who didn't have a clue. On average, older developers were incompetent, not because they were older, but because they were less likely to a) have any formal education in what they were doing and b) a particular interest in what they were doing besides the paycheck.

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#18
If you accept the article's theses that older developers are a big asset AND that they're at a disadvantage in the marketplace due to discrimination, there's an opportunity here. Rather than try to woo and retain 30 hotshot developers in their 20s, it'd be easier to hire 18 or 20 developers in their 40s. The turnover would certainly be lower, the output should be equal (or greater?), and there'd be less need for extensive management oversight.

Anybody know of a company that's tried that approach? If none exist, that leads me to think that either we're onto something interesting or that this approach simply doesn't work.

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#19
Another "I have witnessed X" so "Y must be true" post.

I've been programming commercially for 32 years and in all that time, I have found very little correlation between age and ability to deliver quality software.

I have worked with younger, inexperienced, and uneducated programmers who were willing to learn, with minds like sponges and who were a pleasure to work with. They often found or thought of things the rest of us overlooked.

I have worked with younger, inexperienced, and well educated programmers who thought they knew better and were obstacles to progress.

I have worked with older programmers with the same one year's experience 22 times. Oy.

I have worked with older programmers with excellent domain knowledge and limited technical range. Their personality and willingness to succeed were often the key to progress.

I have worked with older programmers with excellent technical range and limited domain knowledge. Sometimes it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, but when you can, results can be golden.

I have worked with brilliant older programmers with extensive experience and open minds. The best of all worlds.

(By the way, I have also worked with programmers of many ethnicities, female, handicapped, gay, Republican, religious, even left-handed, and have found little or no correlation between their "description" and their "performance". One of the beauties of programming is that the easiest way to evaluate your performance is through your work itself and not much else.)

Re: Pervasive myths about older software developers

#20
I am at 35. Just last year i managed to find balance and value in life. I don't care anymore about "quick success" or coolness. I care about value. Age discrimination is a niche for some businesses to minimize expenses in a short run, but small, dedicated and experienced teams can bring so much profit and value. When you are young you operate on blind fate, you don't have proven methodology to attack "The problem", you don't know when to stop and make turn, simply put you are giant ball of energy without direction.

You need supervising on regular basis :)))

And if you didn't hear - life begins at 40.

If you are healthy and smart you can push your energy more effectively and find satisfaction in so many things.

Post reply on HN