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How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”

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Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”

#211
post #43

I'm Swedish and yes, it was almost insufferable when this book was the hotness during the past two years, but this is hardly "one of the biggest scientific bluffs of our time". It's not even the worst one that got mainstream in Sweden. Electromagnetic hypersensitivity[1] is far more stupid and God knows how much money has been wasted on shielding people from electromagnetic fields by local governments. Hell, just the…

I think it is less "physics literacy" and more a complete lack of teaching and using critical thinking / reasoning. For whatever reason, the West in general (and maybe the world) seems to be spending less and less time on critical thinking and more time on picking a side and then running with it. I have no idea if this is true or just a feeling I have, but if I was a betting man and it is, I would blame media and short attention spans.

Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”

#212
post #9

> · Red: dominant, driven, solution focussed. > · Blue: analytic, careful, meticulous > · Green: patient, considerate, nice > · Yellow: extroverted, creative, verbal Damn. I spent so much of my time and energy pushing back exactly on this bullshit when I was young. That's part of the curriculum of mandatory courses I had to take during an apprenticeship in Switzerland. Expensive and mandatory courses paid by students…

Reminds me of the color themes of Magic the Gathering, replace yellow with white and add black.

Red: Firey & high energy characters that act like that.

Blue: Intelligent & 'meta'. Lots of 'wizards' with that kind of personality.

Green: That might as well describe an Ent.

Yellow/White: Nice extroverted people, with a dash of self-righteousness

Black: Death and negativity.

Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”

#213
post #56
post #2

Couldn't help but check that it is rated 4.6/5 (113 reviews) in Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Surrounded-Idiots-Behavior-Effectivel... Excerpt from one of the top review.. The book really helps you to understand why 'blues' ask 100 questions, want to problem solve all the time, always ask for more information, and can be cold and distant instead of being emotional creatures. Yellows on the other hand are always day…

Hah, this reminds me of zodiac signs, which every single non-scientist female friend of mine seems to take very seriously (not sure about male friends since this topic seems to never come up). No wonder it sells.

Have you tried to be a scientist yourself and getting some numbers to test your hypothesis?

Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”

#214
What you will guarantee is that if you ever agree to take one of these tests, you'll only ever be seen through that lens. It becomes self-fulfilling, and people see what they want to see. The people setting and commissioning the tests are somehow always a miraculous and perfect blend of all of the colours.

Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”

#216
I hold the opposite view. I think this type of segmentation of people is (1)beneficial and (2)mostly harmless.

(1) The sole reason for the feeling of "being surrounded by idiots" is lack of understanding of the other. If someone has different opinions/behaviors/moral values than I do, the easiest thing I could do is just label them "Idiot". Real understanding and empathy are just too hard. Actually, this also true when looking at one's own behaviour. We are mostly quick to judge and be angry at ourselves.

Having a system such as this (even if it is pseudo-scientific) gives one pause in judgement. For example: John isn't an idiot or an asshole, he's just a Green. The implicit idea here is that John doesn't do it on purpose, he's part of a group. So I should be more accepting of him and I should learn to deal with Greens' quirks better. This neutral judgement (instead of the negative one) automatically side-steps the anger, elicits more empathy and accepts partial responsibility for the interactions. It also gives a feeling of increased understanding of "how the world works" which feels good (even if it's false). This also works when introspectively looking at one's own behaviour: Us Blues have a hard time doing X. I should be easier with myself.

The actual underpinned theory is irrelevant (as so far as the aforementioned benefits are considered). It works just as well with "John's just a Gemini/INTP/Type 8". It's just the ability to attribute something to the person's actions I dislike other than stupidity or incompetence.

(2) People love this stuff. Personality segmentation models are abundant and people love taking assessment quizzes. Astrology, Enneagram, Big-5, Myer&Briggs and many others. I'd venture off saying that most people don't take these things too seriously. Even the theories themselves recognize that human's personality can't really fit nicely in n boxes, so all of them have "extensions": You can be several colors, Astrology has "horizons", Ennegram has "wings", Big5 gives a running score to each trait, etc. Proponents of a system can easily utter something like "Mary's not a typical Aries, though". So while there are some people that might take it too far, I feel it's mostly used benignly.

The fact that the theory behind some of these systems are anywhere between questionable to down right ludicrous is a pickle, though. But sometimes system benefit people even when the people don't understand the mechanism in which they do, or hold a wrong one. Therfor truth seeking shouldn't, in and of it self, be enough of a reason to tear down such a system. This idea was explored in an article posted here a few days ago:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22037749

Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”

#217
post #183
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing to "believe". If it is useful in expanding your comfort zone, it's useful, full stop. If it's useful in helping to get along with people who are different from you, it's useful, full stop. If it's not useful to you, that does not mean it is not useful to anybody else.

You can say that about punching people in the face, too.

Sure? And Floyd Mayweather has made significantly more money doing that than most of us will make in our lives. Different strokes for different folks.

Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”

#218
post #212
post #9

> · Red: dominant, driven, solution focussed. > · Blue: analytic, careful, meticulous > · Green: patient, considerate, nice > · Yellow: extroverted, creative, verbal Damn. I spent so much of my time and energy pushing back exactly on this bullshit when I was young. That's part of the curriculum of mandatory courses I had to take during an apprenticeship in Switzerland. Expensive and mandatory courses paid by students…

Reminds me of the color themes of Magic the Gathering, replace yellow with white and add black. Red: Firey & high energy characters that act like that. Blue: Intelligent & 'meta'. Lots of 'wizards' with that kind of personality. Green: That might as well describe an Ent. Yellow/White: Nice extroverted people, with a dash of self-righteousness Black: Death and negativity.

White is also largely about control and order, so I don't think that one fits well (which is fine since it is mapping a different color). The others, yeah, fairly close.

Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”

#219
post #170
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am an American who does not “believe” in Myers-Briggs types and I know plenty more of the same.

There is nothing to "believe". If it is useful in expanding your comfort zone, it's useful, full stop. If it's useful in helping to get along with people who are different from you, it's useful, full stop. If it's not useful to you, that does not mean it is not useful to anybody else.

Full stop, full stop.

Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”

#220
post #9

> · Red: dominant, driven, solution focussed. > · Blue: analytic, careful, meticulous > · Green: patient, considerate, nice > · Yellow: extroverted, creative, verbal Damn. I spent so much of my time and energy pushing back exactly on this bullshit when I was young. That's part of the curriculum of mandatory courses I had to take during an apprenticeship in Switzerland. Expensive and mandatory courses paid by students…

At MSFT, they made everyone go through this training, along with a "personality test" to figure out which colors you were. Then everyone got foam blocks that they were told to stack in their window to tell everyone else how to communicate with them.

This was exactly the same color model, although we gave names to the colors, like red was commander, blue was analyst, etc. Of course, everyone wanted to be red.

I'm sure this course was expensive, and hundreds if not thousands of people took it. It was about as useful as you would imagine. I only wish I could find those blocks, as they were fun (and safe) to throw at people.

Of course they didn't mention the original book, because if they would have, I certainly would have remembered the title!

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