The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development • Hacker News Board

Re: The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

#21

Post by devmunchies » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 6:01 PM UTC

Article mentions Waldorf. A good, old article about Waldorf in Silicon Valley: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/technology/at-waldorf-sch...

I just started my son at Waldorf in the Sierra Nevadas. Would recommend to anyone if you have one near you.

Re: The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

#22

Post by sansnomme » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 6:01 PM UTC

Glyptodon wrote: post #13

Getting kids away from electronics is definitely important, and in some respects I find myself agreeing with multiple points from this: I absolutely agree that (in the USA) K-12 Education's basis should indeed be civic education, or the education required to create excellent citizens. I also absolutely agree that giving kids "technology" (as smartphones, tablets, Baby Shark, and the rest are known) can be unexpectedl…

The problem is that most schools do not provide a good education on how to be creators instead of passive consumers of technology. Learning to use tools such as Excel should be coupled with a tutorial on Visual Basic, beyond shallow here's-a-formula-here's-a-grid. Millennials and Gen Zs don't need the an entire class dedicated to how to use Khan Academy. They just need to know that Moocs and other free resources exist. Another flaw is that a lot of academic stuff are supposed to teach skills by proxy. E.g. learning how to use a search engine through writing a research essay. But most of the "academic search engines" and databases are frankly terrible. Take a look at most universities' library websites and see what they recommend. Most so-called academic journal tooling cannot hold a candle to e.g. Google Scholar. This is especially bad if you study humanities and is willing to just accept technology advice from your institution; you would be wasting hours on search tools with ancient UIs because your professor thinks Google is too "general".

Re: The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

#23

Post by glitchc » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 6:06 PM UTC

jimbob45 wrote: post #3

I was considered a gifted child from a young age. In third grade, because of my "giftedness", I was told I could just read instead of participating in the class skit of the planets of the solar system. I used that time to complete the entire Chronicles of Narnia (good books btw - skip The Magician's Nephew and The Last Battle though). I've wondered what would happen if we scrapped the most useless 30% of my state's s…

As an avid reader personally, I would have loved that. My son is an avid reader too, however, interacting with his friends and my colleagues over the years, I have realized that not everyone learns well or absorbs enough through reading alone. Some people need to see and/or do to learn.

Re: The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

#24

Post by wiredfool » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 6:07 PM UTC

devmunchies wrote: post #21

Article mentions Waldorf. A good, old article about Waldorf in Silicon Valley: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/technology/at-waldorf-sch... I just started my son at Waldorf in the Sierra Nevadas. Would recommend to anyone if you have one near you.

Waldorf does a lot of good things for pretty bonkers reasons. It kind of depends on what the philosophy your particular Waldorf school if that’s an issue or not, and what kind of side effects that has.

Re: The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

#25

Post by nickbauman » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

plughs wrote: post #8

Our elementary school uses chromebooks from 1st grade on, and I do see a lot of downsides. The most outrageous problem, IMO, is that there are 'modules' that must be completed, and kids with computer access at home can work on them at home. Kids from low income families are screwed over - again. Other problems - spellcheck is always on, why learn real spelling when the computer fixes it for you? - The de-emphasis on…

There's no reasonable correlation between spelling and higher intelligence. It can be a proxy for minimum intelligence, absent other information, but that's about all.

Re: The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

#26

Post by commandlinefan » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 6:11 PM UTC

plughs wrote: post #8

Our elementary school uses chromebooks from 1st grade on, and I do see a lot of downsides. The most outrageous problem, IMO, is that there are 'modules' that must be completed, and kids with computer access at home can work on them at home. Kids from low income families are screwed over - again. Other problems - spellcheck is always on, why learn real spelling when the computer fixes it for you? - The de-emphasis on…

> kids with computer access at home can work on them at home

More than once, my kids have been required to print something out, often in color. I have a crappy inkjet printer, but the quality is so bad that I've taken their assignments and printed them out at Staples a few times.

Re: The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

#27

Post by gautamdivgi » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 6:12 PM UTC

plughs wrote: post #8

Our elementary school uses chromebooks from 1st grade on, and I do see a lot of downsides. The most outrageous problem, IMO, is that there are 'modules' that must be completed, and kids with computer access at home can work on them at home. Kids from low income families are screwed over - again. Other problems - spellcheck is always on, why learn real spelling when the computer fixes it for you? - The de-emphasis on…

My kids school allows them to take the Chromebook home. But until now class assignments have always been written assignments. They have "modules" which they do at school, not at home. There were a couple of days where it just got to be too much screen time. I've banned opening the Chromebook at home. It doesn't go up to their room. Allowing them to take the Chromebook home isn't a healthy idea. Too many downsides, I haven't seen a single upside.

Re: The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

#28

Post by floren » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

jimbob45 wrote: post #3

I was considered a gifted child from a young age. In third grade, because of my "giftedness", I was told I could just read instead of participating in the class skit of the planets of the solar system. I used that time to complete the entire Chronicles of Narnia (good books btw - skip The Magician's Nephew and The Last Battle though). I've wondered what would happen if we scrapped the most useless 30% of my state's s…

I'm convinced that people would, in general, be much more competent at general writing and communication if they spent more time reading for pleasure as kids. I developed a huge vocabulary and an instinctive grasp of grammar because I read voraciously; constantly immersed in more-or-less decent writing, I could immediately tell when my own writing was "off".

Re: The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

#29

Post by fatnoah » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 6:16 PM UTC

plughs wrote: post #8

Our elementary school uses chromebooks from 1st grade on, and I do see a lot of downsides. The most outrageous problem, IMO, is that there are 'modules' that must be completed, and kids with computer access at home can work on them at home. Kids from low income families are screwed over - again. Other problems - spellcheck is always on, why learn real spelling when the computer fixes it for you? - The de-emphasis on…

>Our elementary school uses chromebooks from 1st grade on, and I do see a lot of downsides.

When my family moved last year, we moved to a school system where Chromebooks are in use. (You can bring your own or the school will provide one for you for free). I was very worried about many of the downsides as well, but after 1.5 years, I think it's actually a pretty big positive.

In my case, my son has ADHD, so getting paperwork organized is a huge challenge for him. Being able to access everything is a life saver for him. About 50% of his homework and projects are completed and submitted online. Getting him to complete a creative project on paper is pulling teeth, but making a slide deck for the same thing with lots of clip art, etc. is easy and he'll do countless revisions.

I think some of the keys to success are that we only use the Chromebook for school stuff. Anything other than schoolwork happens elsewhere. The school system also does a good job balancing things and the "games" we've seen skew far more towards educational rather than game-like. As parents, we make it easy to find the recreational stuff on a different device, but that's a luxury we have that many don't. The result is that the school computer gets used for school.

So, it's possible to make it work well, but I agree that there are many places it can go wrong.

Re: The technology pushed into schools today is a threat to child development

#30

Post by Nasrudith » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 6:16 PM UTC

thrower123 wrote: post #10

Once we got laptops in high school, almost all of the down-time after completing assignments that I used to spend reading in middle school was converted to playing Flash games or screwing around with GarageBand.

I remember how it was before - they just screwed around in different ways such that doodling violent or rude stick figures was one of the better uses of the down time compared to outright mischief.