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Letting slower passengers board airplane first is faster, study finds

arstechnica.com

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Re: Letting slower passengers board airplane first is faster, study finds

#461

Post by magduf »

darrenf wrote: post #384
magduf wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? No, that makes no sense at all. The fares are exactly the same in the entire section of the cabin, and only differ by section (i.e., business class costs more than economy, "economy plus" costs more than economy, etc.). Planes don't have different costs by row within the same section. We do row-by-row because we intuitively think that people closer to the exit should be able to get to the exit faster, even thoug…

> Huh? No, that makes no sense at all. The fares are exactly the same in the entire section of the cabin, and only differ by section Tickets in a cabin vary greatly in price on many airlines according to several independent variables including: seat location/quality; degrees of flexibility (changeable vs non); refundable vs not; hold baggage included vs not; singles vs returns; currency used (cash vs frequent flyer c…

Completely wrong. You're talking about the overall ticket price with addons; the things you refer to have nothing to do with seat location and quality. I already addressed this: first class, business class, economy plus, economy. Other than that, the prices are the same. There's no difference, WITHIN THE SAME SECTION, between two seats.

Re: Letting slower passengers board airplane first is faster, study finds

#462

Post by magduf »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #226
magduf wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? No, that makes no sense at all. The fares are exactly the same in the entire section of the cabin, and only differ by section (i.e., business class costs more than economy, "economy plus" costs more than economy, etc.). Planes don't have different costs by row within the same section. We do row-by-row because we intuitively think that people closer to the exit should be able to get to the exit faster, even thoug…

I’m pretty sure fares for each person fluctuate greatly depending on when they purchase and what terms they had and what discount or upgrades they have.

Again, as I just wrote to the other responder, that has absolutely nothing to do with your seat location (within the same section).

Seat 34F does not cost more than seat 35F.

Re: Letting slower passengers board airplane first is faster, study finds

#463

Post by magduf »

sib wrote: post #275
magduf wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? No, that makes no sense at all. The fares are exactly the same in the entire section of the cabin, and only differ by section (i.e., business class costs more than economy, "economy plus" costs more than economy, etc.). Planes don't have different costs by row within the same section. We do row-by-row because we intuitively think that people closer to the exit should be able to get to the exit faster, even thoug…

The fares (on most airlines) are absolutely not the same throughout an entire section. They vary based on purchase time, seat "quality" (which includes location), extra features such as legroom & recline, spikes in demand, etc.

Sorry, that's complete BS. Maybe you haven't taken a plane in a long time, but fares are by section only. Then, on the website, you get to pick your seat, AFTER you've chosen the section and fare. The price doesn't change unless you move to a more expensive section (like "economy plus").

The legroom and recline is all the same within the same section, except for the exit rows.

Re: Letting slower passengers board airplane first is faster, study finds

#464

Post by ergothus »

lonelappde wrote: post #233
fiblye wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, with this idea, people would just clog up right outside the airplane door waiting for their family. Anyone trying to get through would get some angry looks for daring to push through.

Angry looks don't slow the line.

When people feel fairness is violated (correct or not) they will often gum up the works in protest. As an example, watch what happens when car lanes merge early, or some drives up the shoulder. Others will position to stop that.

(Note I'm not saying anything about what people on either side of this conflict SHOULD be doing, just talking about how people react to perceived unfairness.)

Re: Letting slower passengers board airplane first is faster, study finds

#465

Post by jngreenlee »

rdl wrote: post #380
jngreenlee wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>act as greedily as possible so it takes longer than it needs to These two things aren't connected (greed and time blocking alsie). the greedy answer is to get comfortable and settled in your bubble, fast. I am a SW FF, most of the other people on my planes are, and we get it...we move and seat quickly to allow others in. I'm guessing far better average plane etiquette than most other US airline's FFs (though all FFs…

Wouldn't it be optimal, assuming you don't want to sit next to someone, to pick a window/aisle toward the back of the aircraft?

Not at current load ratios. Most flights are full. Good business environment and MAXes out of service are causing this. Your best bet might be the stranded 2-seat exit row on -800s.

But better to assume you'll have a middle seater. If you stay calm it will be okay.

Re: Letting slower passengers board airplane first is faster, study finds

#466

Post by jngreenlee »

ckrailo wrote: post #427
setpatchaddress wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I fly Southwest whenever possible; the loading process appears to be more efficient and is certainly less chaotic than other airlines. The flight attendants are consistently the friendliest I've encountered, too.

^ This. The most chaotic part of the whole process is finding your number in the line-up to scan your boarding pass. They also set your expectations on seat-finding as you board, so if the plane is half empty or full up, you'll be able to make a good seat choice. While the other airlines are announcing the 15th class of partner airlines rewards members being able to board and everybody's standing around watching, Sou…

OMG yes...I flyed United occasionally when SW doesn't makes sense for the route. I was even status matched to "Premier Platinum" for a while. I was amazed that 1. I didn't get upgrades due to the remaining levels above me, and 2. Just how long boarding is and how many special groups. Can't see the business value there.

Re: Letting slower passengers board airplane first is faster, study finds

#467

Post by cgriswald »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #453
tedunangst wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point is that all algorithms respond the same way to inputs, and a counterexample helps prove it?

That wasn't my point - we are talking about a specific scenario here, not "all"

An algorithm sees its best time complexity over some percentage of the input space. Over some other percentage it sees its worst time complexity. And, on average over the entire input space, it sees its average time complexity. The algorithms are necessarily different in what those best, average and worst are, and importantly, over what parts of the input space those categories apply. If they weren't, we'd call the algorithms mathematically equivalent and it wouldn't matter which one you chose. And if they all handled 'problem' data equally, we'd see that they all have the same performance penalty between best and average and average and worst. They don't. Sometimes best and average are equal. Sometimes worst and average are equal. Sometimes all three are equal.

If your data is truly random, you should pick the algorithm with the best average time complexity. Is your data random? Almost certainly not. It might be 'random enough', or it might not be. A real world data set may fall completely within the best case of algorithm A and the worst case of algorithm B, even if the average case of B is better than the average case of A.

In this case, the data points that are most likely to negatively affect an algorithm are specifically being excluded from the model. Far from comparing even the average case, we're comparing best cases. We aren't using a 'real world' data set. So it's an interesting simulation, but it isn't enough to reach any conclusions at all.

Re: Letting slower passengers board airplane first is faster, study finds

#468

Post by kyllo »

c3534l wrote: post #360
kyllo wrote: post #230

This reminds me of the book The Goal by Eli Goldratt. It's fictional, but there's a story about a boy scout troop that goes on a hike, and there's an overweight kid named Herbie who hikes the slowest. The troop leader teaches everyone that the entire group as a whole will reach the top faster (and stay together) if they keep Herbie in the front. When you have a bottleneck step in your process, the whole end-to-end pr…

Already with our inefficient boarding process there's often a 15-30 minute wait to get permission to fly. Boarding isn't the bottleneck.

The point is that within the boarding process, the slower (elderly, disabled, traveling with children etc.) people are the bottleneck, and letting them board first actually makes the boarding process take less time. The pilot can't even start waiting to get permission to fly until after everyone's boarded.

Re: Letting slower passengers board airplane first is faster, study finds

#470

Post by cortesoft »

distances wrote: post #387
cortesoft wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to always fly southwest out of Burbank, and they exit from the front and back. I would always board late and go to the back, and be the first one out. I got pissed when they started telling people during boarding about how they exit at our destination, and more people sat in back.

This implies you could choose your seat, and the plane wasn't full. That sounds like a different era to start with.

Southwest still lets everyone choose their seat.... you get a place in line based on when you check in, and when you get on the plane you pick any seat.
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