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Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

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Re: Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

#51

Post by martopix »

leppr wrote: post #22
martopix wrote: post #8

You should probably try TabNine ('autocompletion with deep learning'). It is trained on a compendium of pre-existing code, and suggests really sophisticated completions. Sometimes it freaks me out how it suggests solutions, almost like having somebody code for me.

The downside of TabNine is that it removes predictability. With regular completion, semantic or not, if I have a long function name I can reliably write a couple letters of it and get the completion without even having to look at the suggestions.

One thing doesn't exclude the other. TabNine also supports semantic completion. I haven't yet tried it in PyCharm, but I don't think it entirely overrides the powerful built-in autocompleter.

Re: Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

#52

Post by ehnto »

OskarS wrote: post #20

You know, I realize I'm the weird one here, but: when writing code, I almost always turn off autocomplete. Sometimes you basically have to have it on (when the language is demands it) but I usually turn it off. It's too much visual noise, too distracting. It's a thing that pops up that demands your attention. If I want to type if (myVector->empty()) { fillVector(myVector); } autocomplete will pop up a window like 4 t…

> Ugh, no, I don't like this at all. This is what leads to nightmarish Java type names ("AbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBean") that makes this language practically demand auto-complete.

You have it the wrong way around. Naming like that comes from the structure of the application, which just happens to benefit the ability for autocomplete tools to understand it.

If you've ever worked on enterprise software, with hundreds of classes across a half a dozen domains, you'll know the structure comes from a need for organisation and discoverability, and without that organisation you would have a harder time finding the parts of the application you need to be aware of. Autocomplete is just a convenient way to search the codebase for what you want. But that structure is the real hero.

Re: Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

#53

Post by ehnto »

cytzol wrote: post #40
OskarS wrote: post #20

You know, I realize I'm the weird one here, but: when writing code, I almost always turn off autocomplete. Sometimes you basically have to have it on (when the language is demands it) but I usually turn it off. It's too much visual noise, too distracting. It's a thing that pops up that demands your attention. If I want to type if (myVector->empty()) { fillVector(myVector); } autocomplete will pop up a window like 4 t…

I used to think this way, too, so I don’t think you’re weird. At my old workplace, everyone else was a Java IDE wizard, and I was used to good old-fashioned text editors. Aren’t you distracted by that widget appearing while you’re typing, I thought? Is it really faster for you to hit the Down arrow three times instead of just typing ‘empty’? Do people not learn the libraries they’re using anymore‽ But over time, some…

> The reason I still use autocomplete is not that I need my IDE to tell me that there’s an ‘empty’ method there as if that’s something I don’t already know, but to tell me that my assumption that ‘myVector’ has an ‘empty’ method is correct!

Exactly, autocomplete is an excellent discovery tool. I may not even be aware productModel->hasConfigurableOptions was a function, or Product\Model\Configurable\Options was a model until I check with autocompletes.

Re: Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

#54

Post by arkh »

> If I were writing a sophisticated user interface today—say, a programming language or a complex application—autocompletion is one of the primary constraints I would design it around.

Early php did something like that just not for the same reason. https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/70691

Re: Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

#55

Post by jasonlotito »

manaskarekar wrote: post #34
jasonlotito wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most auto complete that I've seen implemented in the last decade has timing attached to it. So if you are typing empty(), it's not just going to pop up. Rather, it waits for a pause, an indication that you aren't sure. I also don't know of a single language that requires auto-complete for everything. I do know languages that make more use of it, but I also don't now of a single language that benefits from not having…

> if you are typing empty(), it's not just going to pop up. Rather, it waits for a pause, an indication that you aren't sure. That's a negative experience for me. If I'm pausing, it's because I need to think about something. In that instant, a suggestion distracts me. The chances of the suggestion being relevant to my pause are pretty low. The best option is when you can invoke the autocomplete/docs on demand - using…

> That's a negative experience for me.

Sure, I wasn't talking to you. I was referencing another user and a specific element of their comment. I also wasn't giving an exhaustive list of all the options available in modern autocomplete features.

> The best option is when you can invoke the autocomplete/docs on demand - using a convenient shortcut.

Autocomplete has that as well. Seems like people are assuming that there is only one way to do things, which is silly. Instance, delayed, and activated. These all exist.

So yes, you can customize things to fit your easily distracted nature.

Re: Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

#56

Post by reaperducer »

OskarS wrote: post #20

You know, I realize I'm the weird one here, but: when writing code, I almost always turn off autocomplete. Sometimes you basically have to have it on (when the language is demands it) but I usually turn it off. It's too much visual noise, too distracting. It's a thing that pops up that demands your attention. If I want to type if (myVector->empty()) { fillVector(myVector); } autocomplete will pop up a window like 4 t…

I almost always turn off autocomplete

I treat it like eye candy: Just some fun, animated blandishment that makes me feel all 1337 while banging out code.

What would be nice is if the auto-complete window could be detached from the cursor and float in a corner of the editor, so I can look at it for those times when I have a brain fart and can't remember which parameter comes first in a function.

Re: Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

#57

Post by jasonlotito »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #50
jasonlotito wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most auto complete that I've seen implemented in the last decade has timing attached to it. So if you are typing empty(), it's not just going to pop up. Rather, it waits for a pause, an indication that you aren't sure. I also don't know of a single language that requires auto-complete for everything. I do know languages that make more use of it, but I also don't now of a single language that benefits from not having…

I find that the timing is actually worse, because then I start waiting for the menu to appear as affirmation for some assumption I made about the namespace. It’s also jarring that it appears out of sync with keystrokes. Turning off the delay and working on menu placement instead could provide for better PX, but it is something that can be user tested a lot, at least.

> I find that the timing is actually worse

That's fine. Amazingly, these things are customizable to fit everyones needs. Thinking there is only one way to do it is silly, but apparently a number of developers things autocomplete can be done only one way.

Re: Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

#58

Post by setr »

melling wrote: post #39
OskarS wrote: post #20

You know, I realize I'm the weird one here, but: when writing code, I almost always turn off autocomplete. Sometimes you basically have to have it on (when the language is demands it) but I usually turn it off. It's too much visual noise, too distracting. It's a thing that pops up that demands your attention. If I want to type if (myVector->empty()) { fillVector(myVector); } autocomplete will pop up a window like 4 t…

There are lots of developers like yourself. I always refer to this as the John Henry Programmer. https://www.ibiblio.org/john_henry/ Just bang away at keyboard as fast as you can, hitting keys tens of millions of times over a lifetime. Humans are tool builders. At some point, the tools will mature to the point where sudden bursts of typing at 100 wpm will become irrelevant.

>Humans are tool builders.

But they don't always build useful tools ! And more notably, useful tools don't necessarily become widespread, and widespread tools aren't necessarily useful

And of course widespread tooling is often not actually best-in-class

But so human advancement is not sufficient reasoning -- it's not uncommon that doing nothing at all is more optimal than doing the thing we did (eg the recent flight boarding article on frontpage, which described the common back-to-front, and front-to-back, load orders being worse than random load -- the optimal solution is quite convoluted)

Re: Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

#59

Post by im3w1l »

martopix wrote: post #8

You should probably try TabNine ('autocompletion with deep learning'). It is trained on a compendium of pre-existing code, and suggests really sophisticated completions. Sometimes it freaks me out how it suggests solutions, almost like having somebody code for me.

Are the completions legally owned by you the user? Or are they provided under license?

Re: Autocomplete as an Interface (2015)

#60

Post by hyperpallium »

OskarS wrote: post #20

You know, I realize I'm the weird one here, but: when writing code, I almost always turn off autocomplete. Sometimes you basically have to have it on (when the language is demands it) but I usually turn it off. It's too much visual noise, too distracting. It's a thing that pops up that demands your attention. If I want to type if (myVector->empty()) { fillVector(myVector); } autocomplete will pop up a window like 4 t…

In vim, you have to ask for autocomplete (^n).
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