That seems like an exaggregation. Certainly there must be larger "scientific bluffs"? Examples of articles in peer reviewed journals, relying on manipulated data or something.
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How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
61–70 of 340 posts
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Managers like them as they try to make sense of how their reports behave and work together, people they know but not really. Sounds like some people like them as a way to make sense of issues with their personal relationships. People outside yourself make decisions that are frequently confusing, and people like this sort of categorization to make sense of them.
People liking something doesn't mean they are actually useful, though. Some folks like fake medicine because they feel like they are doing something useful - even when we can prove that no, "memory water" isn't curing your cold. People like horoscopes for your same reasons - because people are confusing and some sort of categorization is a way to make sense to them. It doesn't actually mean it is useful or even accur…
Sure but it's worth exploring why these are popular beyond simply writing it off as "people are dummies."
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#63Is it not the same for the current wave of anti-bias/discrimination/racism training? There is zero evidence that it has any effect. What few brave researchers have risked their careers exploring the effectiveness of the training have found that it does basically nothing. None of that stops companies from paying millions for it and good luck to the employee or executive that even dares suggest that perhaps there's bet…
I think you misinterpret why this is being done.
It's not to train employees.
It's a hedge against accusations of racism.
So management can point at this and say: see? We did all we could!
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#64Is it not the same for the current wave of anti-bias/discrimination/racism training? There is zero evidence that it has any effect. What few brave researchers have risked their careers exploring the effectiveness of the training have found that it does basically nothing. None of that stops companies from paying millions for it and good luck to the employee or executive that even dares suggest that perhaps there's bet…
It depends on what you mean. About 25 years ago in Sweden the leading party the Social Democrats instituted a policy championed by feminists that meant that every other elected position should be occupied by a woman. Research has shown that that policy has led to more qualified candidates across the political spectrum.
There is also evidence from Sweden that attitudes towards rape and sexual assault has changed due to government policies. E.g questions such as "Is it ok to have sex with a girl who is too drunk to speak?" are answered differently today than 20 years ago.
Edit: The research is here: https://wwwsnsse.cdn.triggerfish.cloud/uploads/2017/05/sns-a... More qualified means higher level of education and more years of experience. Same metrics as used in most workplaces.
Also, I wonder why it only took someone five minutes to ask me for a source, but no one has yet to ask tenpies for a source... Some facts are easier to believe than others?
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#65That seems like an exaggregation. Certainly there must be larger "scientific bluffs"? Examples of articles in peer reviewed journals, relying on manipulated data or something.
True, climate change denialism is certainly a bigger deal, but it's not simply a case of a single guy making stuff up to make money.
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#66I had never heard of this book, or color system before, but it makes me think of my time working in car sales. Our senior sales managers trained us to identify personalities, and they used similar groupings.
There were four 'buckets' and they are very close to this color system. They are dominant driver, complacent, ego driven, and analytical. The idea is to, as quickly as possible, identify the customer's type, and adapt your sales approach to that. You learn to use a communication style for each bucket. Different types of questions to ask, different speed/ energy, different body language.
I was a terrible salesperson, but I watched the managers and top salespeople use this approach with much success. They would match their style of communication with the customer's, in an attempt to earn their favor and make them feel more comfortable. The hypothesis is this increases the likelihood of closing the sale.
I understand these buckets (colors) aren't scientific, and it sounds like some folks in Sweden might have taken it too far or been misled. But the article says
"Erikson has repeatedly claimed that the benefit of his colour approach is that it helps us understand ourselves and others and, as a result, improves our communication and reduces conflicts."
So I'm not sure that the idea of learning different ways people communicate, and in turn, how you yourself can communicate in different ways is a 'fraud'. To be fair, I haven't read the book so I don't know how or what ideas are presented.
I think the 4 buckets/colors can just be a loose 'framework'. As long as you understand it's not the end all - be all of personality. In fact it's not really 'personality' at all. It's just a quick and dirty way of grouping common characteristics of people.
Maybe it's not useful in all situations, but for some applications (like sales), there is certainly value in communicating with people in a way that is compatible with their style. In the case of car sales, it's very tangible value, a larger paycheck :)
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#67I have a problem with the article author's implication that someone without credentials (read: university degree) isn't a scientist, or at least is a lesser scientist.
A scientist is someone who employs the scientific method. That's it.
Thomas Erikson does not seem to qualify from what I can tell (he's just winging it), but he absolutely does not need to have a doctorate (or even a bachelors) in order to be a "behavioral scientist" - he just needs to be using the scientific method when testing the claims he makes in his book or elsewhere.
No, your poodle does not have just as much right to call themselves a scientist, as a poodle is literally incapable of ever using the scientific method. You don't need an extensive "scientific background" in order for your first book to be perfectly scientific.
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#68> Unfortunately, the theory behind this book, and the various follow-ups, is no more than pseudoscientific nonsense. And Erikson appears to lack even basic knowledge of psychology or behavioural science. This seems to happen often. Are there any non-pseudoscientific psychology theories? AFAIK only IQ and (possibly) the "Big Five" personality traits. Short list of (likely) "failed" (pop-)psychological theories: - ster…
Myers-Briggs is just about as unscientific as it gets. Neither Myers nor Myers-Briggs (her daughter) had any formal education in psychology or any serious experience. Their personality types are based on Jung's ideas that are over a 100 years old and have been long since discredited. There are no studies that confirm that MBTI type is predictive of anything. There are studies that seem to confirm that the dichotomies used in MBTI might not actually exist. Et cetera.
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#69Is it not the same for the current wave of anti-bias/discrimination/racism training? There is zero evidence that it has any effect. What few brave researchers have risked their careers exploring the effectiveness of the training have found that it does basically nothing. None of that stops companies from paying millions for it and good luck to the employee or executive that even dares suggest that perhaps there's bet…
It is so clearly a con game and I consider it abuse to subject anyone to it.
Re: How Swedes were fooled by the book “Surrounded by Idiots”
#70there is something about psychology that really invites all types of pseudoscience. In all honesty I cant tell whether what I've learned in introductory courses makes more or less sense than what is described as fraud in the article