A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change • Hacker News Board

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#31

Post by growlist » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 2:35 PM UTC

ebiester wrote: post #11

fallingfrog wrote: post #2

No, ending the extraction and burning of fossil fuels is how we fix climate change. Anything else is just buying time.

All of these are "not only but also" solutions. One thing we need to do is end the extraction and burning of fossil fuels, but that only addresses one type of pollution, and it only gets us so far if the alternative doesn't pollute in some way. (For example, solar and the waste that it generates.) We need to solve the whole ecosystem issue.

> We need to solve the whole ecosystem issue.

Which unless we come up with some pretty smart measures is inevitably going to involve poorer lifestyles for most in the developed world, in effect (and perhaps this explains the keeness on the left for environmental issues) moving us to a more socialist model, wherein hard work offers far less in terms of monetary reward than at present.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#32

Post by jacknews » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 2:35 PM UTC

adreamingsoul wrote: post #5

I'm burnt out or depressed with my current career (or something else), but at this moment I would happily pivot to spending the rest of my life trying to help nature. How could I create a business or venture that allowed people to make a livable wage while also working to create a balanced ecosystem between human and nature?

Factory food.

I realise that has icky connotations, and is anathema to some people, but we will need at least 50% more food over the coming decades, and we are already over-using the land (and especially the sea) by a lot.

Organics, permacultures, symbiotic planting, etc, are all good things, but not nearly enough to meet our future needs.

So we need to concentrate large parts of agriculture into a much smaller footprint.

Hydroponics, aquaponics, indoor fish farms (we really need to stop fishing wild fish at sea, except in the most artisanal line-caught manner), synthetic milk, juices, flours, even grains if possiible, protein from insects, engineered yeasts, etc, etc.

Ideally, we could actually make food much more nutritious, and delicious, by manufacturing most of it.

Good people can help keep it on that ideal course, not a more dystopian one of sickly 'protein pills'.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#33

Post by lotsofpulp » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 2:36 PM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #21

earthtolazlo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having your cake and eating it too sounds like a great option. It just doesn’t have any basis in reality.

Parent as I read it isn't suggesting that having your cake and eating it too is possible, instead they're attempting to establish a dual-scale demarcation of viewpoints with one scale being "Prohibition or allowance of fossil fuels" and the other scale being "Fixes or does not fix climate change". This is useful because polling has discovered many US Republicans will actually vote for climate solutions _if_ they empl…

The people voting against environmental reforms are doing it because they don't want to reduce their quality of life.

And since nothing comes close to the cost to energy density ratio of fossil fuels, there is no solution other than reducing energy usage and reducing quality of life. And so without convincing people they should reduce their quality of life for the benefit of future generations, nothing is going to happen.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#34

Post by longtom » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 2:36 PM UTC

perfunctory wrote: post #16

Unfortunately the reality (as always) is much more prosaic. There is no one single clever solution to the climate problem. Fixing climate will require lots and lots of different solutions across the board, including reforestation.

Indeed. A good overview is provided by the following blog posts:

https://longitudinal.blog/co2-series-part-1-review-of-basics...

https://longitudinal.blog/co2-series-part-2-co2-removal/

https://longitudinal.blog/co2-series-part-3-other-interventi...

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#35

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 2:37 PM UTC

growlist wrote: post #28

earthtolazlo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having your cake and eating it too sounds like a great option. It just doesn’t have any basis in reality.

> It just doesn’t have any basis in reality. So you're effectively denying the possibility? I'd say that's a pretty gargantuan assumption to make.

[deleted]

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#36

Post by pinkfoot » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 2:37 PM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #21

earthtolazlo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having your cake and eating it too sounds like a great option. It just doesn’t have any basis in reality.

Parent as I read it isn't suggesting that having your cake and eating it too is possible, instead they're attempting to establish a dual-scale demarcation of viewpoints with one scale being "Prohibition or allowance of fossil fuels" and the other scale being "Fixes or does not fix climate change". This is useful because polling has discovered many US Republicans will actually vote for climate solutions _if_ they empl…

Will they vote for the LFTR? They haven't so far.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#37

Post by growlist » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 2:37 PM UTC

ainiriand wrote: post #22

growlist wrote: post #3

Gets my vote. I love woodland and can't bear the empty, desolate green spaces that cover most of the UK, and which many British people consider to be 'nature'. And here's an idea: process the wood into a form that can be used for land reclamation without decomposing, cover said land with topsoil, grow trees on said land. Voila: a buffer against worsening coastal erosion due to sea level rise, that also locks in carbo…

I was in shock to discover how empty and barren Ireland is. According to Wikipedia it is one of the most heavily deforested countries in Europe...

If you think that's bad: Ireland are still digging and burning peat to produce energy - Peat! in 2020! Horrifying

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#38

Post by drderidder » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 2:37 PM UTC

triclops200 wrote: post #8

That only "fixes" climate change as long as the trees continue growing and do not die. When dead, trees release their CO_2 that they've sequestered back into the atmosphere due to decomposition. Therefore, assuming those forests stay around, you've only delayed the problem by sinking a fixed amount of CO_2 away into the living biomass of the trees. The only way to make that a permanent sink would be to biochar the tr…

That's basically, well, not true. When trees break down they contribute to soil organic matter. Approx 58% of SOM is carbon (SOC) making soil one of the largest carbon sinks on the planet. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_organic_matter

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#39

Post by Tade0 » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 2:37 PM UTC

IIRC a single tree absorbs around 25kg of CO2 annually during its fastest growth stage.

That's an equivalent of less than 200km in a compact car or 2kg of beef.

I believe it makes more sense to pick the low hanging fruit which is making transportation more efficient and reducing the impact of food production.

Re: A global reforestation project is how we fix climate change

#40

Post by seren » Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 2:38 PM UTC

ainiriand wrote: post #17

triclops200 wrote: post #8

That only "fixes" climate change as long as the trees continue growing and do not die. When dead, trees release their CO_2 that they've sequestered back into the atmosphere due to decomposition. Therefore, assuming those forests stay around, you've only delayed the problem by sinking a fixed amount of CO_2 away into the living biomass of the trees. The only way to make that a permanent sink would be to biochar the tr…

Well, the main purpose would be to avoid tree death. And even natural death of trees can be allowed considering that an oak lives around 150 years. Regarding what you say about releasing the co2 they have stored, keep in mind that the tree is not a co2 sponge. It takes co2 and transforms a big chunk of it in other carbon-based components useful to the tree. I recommend this article that clears some ideas about trees…

A sequoia sempervirens lives 1,500 years.

I am not deluding myself that we will mitigate climate change by covering Earth in sequoia, but still that gives some timescale on how long trees can live.

If we could mitigate climate change for another 1,500 years we would probably have found some other mitigations by then.